CrowdSupply is great - I ran a successful project through them. And I would definitely recommend anyone doing some hardware taking a look.
There are a couple of things to be aware of - everything is shipped to the US and then distributed from there (using Mouser US).
From the project point of view this means, depending on where things are manufactured) tariffs can come into play. The terms of shipping to mouser are delivery duty paid - so it’s the shipper who pays.
For backers it does mean people outside of US can pay quite high shipping costs.
The other thing from a project point of view is that mouser is a distributor. They want a reasonable (around 40%) margin on the things they ship.
With CrowdSupply there are two sets of orders:
Orders placed during the campaign - the project gets the full money (minus fees etc…)
Orders placed after the campaign and any additional bulk orders - the project gets the wholesale price.
Excellent write up! This answered some of my questions that I wasn't really comfortable asking creators. A very (and I mean very) long time ago when people were complaining about the price of software I wrote up a Usenet post on why software costs what it does and enlightened a number of people to the fact that yeah, there are many things you don't think about when you're just looking at the list price.
Presumably the contract doesn't allow you to sell product directly if you wanted too. The other thing I'm curious about is that CrowdSupply does continue to list "buying options" long after the creator has gone away. Which makes me wonder if they have some sort of rights to tooling etc post campaign?
Post campaign mouser will continue to order from the creator to keep their stock levels up (assuming the product is selling!). So although the creator may not be actively promoting the product, they may still be doing production runs.
I need to check the exact wording in my contract - but post campaign you can sell through other channels if you want to (which would allow you to do it directly).
Thanks, one of the things I bought on a campaign was a programmable USB hub from 'Capable Robotics Components' and when I thought, this thing is really useful I need another one, they became impossible to get.
This was a really interesting read! Back in the day a friend and I started a company and Kickstartered a RPi add-on. The kickstarter campaign failed, but we ended up building anyway after one of the silicon manufacturers spotted the project and provided some FoC devices which changed the economics.
We spent oodles of time on it, learned lots, build a fairly simple product but ended up selling it through some of the bigger RPi retailers. It was all an excellent learning experience, and ignoring our time we made about 50p out of the entire batch of a thousand. Factor in our time and it was a complete financial disaster, but we were young and carefree and had fun doing it!
I bought it two years ago for over $1800, and I have to say, it was worth every single dollar.
I can read on it, work on it, (kind of) watch youtube videos on it, play (some) RTS game on it. And mine only had 33hz refresh rate, not the latest 60hz.
When I tried (and returned) one of their monitors, it was absolutely horrific with ghosting. This was perhaps 5 years ago.
There was no manual, and it had a closed source application to time or force refresh. Of course, being closed source it wouldn't work on a Pi (arm64), nor did I feel comfortable about unknown code, or it working in a few years on a newer version of Linux.
It was all exceptionally poorly done. Amazon says it was a Dasung E-Ink Paperlike 3 HD Front-Light and Touch 13.3" Monitor.
If the app had been OSS, or it had an open API via the cable, I could have scripted an auto-refresh upon scrolling in vi or some such. Or just hacked into something seeing change scope under X. Point is, I could have made it work for me.
The default modes were terrible.
I hope things are better, but no way will I install some weird closed source client.
I have a fairly new tablet, and it handles refresh incredibly well, but I'm sure that's with strong integration into the display stack. Which is fine, of course, but that doesn't help me with coding.
EDIT: one of the things which makes some of these e-ink tablets incredible for refresh, is partial, very well done sectional refresh. So if a small part of the screen changes, BAM!, it's refreshed instantly for ghosting.
Again, I suspect this is tied into the display stack. The monitors I've seen don't seem anywhere as good. I'd love to to be wrong on newer models.
Input is just HDMI, so works on Linux without issue. There might be an app or something that lets you control the settings, but I've never used that once. All relevant stuff can be configured from the front panel buttons. I think the Mac issue is that macos slightly dithers/moves the image with a high rate which would kill the EInk pixels quickly. There appears to be an app to deactivate this behavior though.
> Input is just HDMI, so works on Linux without issue
HDMI is not always plug and play. I unfortunately encountered a situation where a Phillips HDMI display only worked with Windows, but not Linux due to EDID/Nvidia driver issues
Page does mention Linux but there’s a separate Mac variant (which also needs an app) and a warning never to plug a Mac on the standard variant. What about people who use both?
I cannot make guarantees but I do remember temporarily using it for my Debian installation for my home server -- can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work though. For both Windows and Mac it's just plug and play.
Forgot to mention one benefit, for the ultra-lazy like myself.
You can just leave the display on forever and you never have to wait for the screen to wake up again. I use amphetamine on macOS and just set a session forever. I'm more comfortable this way since eink displays don't emit light and thus should consume less power.
Weird. I have a work MacBook Pro m3 and a personal m1 MacBook Pro. Both are just plug and play for me. I actually have my displayed connected to a CalDigit TS3 dock and just connect different computer to the same dock.
Over HDMI I’ve got a no-signal error. I think I’ve tried display port or something else and got very bad ghosting and a kind of very bad contrast issue. You couldn’t really read text(unlike what I’ve seen on YouTube videos). Tried different kinds of settings still couldn’t get it into a working state. Like it needs a special driver or something like that.
For reading and work, I actually prefer this experience. The contrast for text is way better and more crisp than regular LED/LCD/OLED displays, unless you turn the regular display's brightness way up, until which point my eyes hurt from all that light emitted. This was my primary reason for buying such a display -- I love my Kindle and want to use it more, but I couldn't.
Now for entertainment you are obviously limited. For informational Youtube videos you could be getting by alright -- you don't really need to see colors for those. Games is tricky since you could only do non-demanding ones. Shopping gets tricky since you can't see colors. Sometimes I find myself hopping on my iPhone to check before placing orders.
I have both, a Boox Mira pro (monochrome only) as well as a Dasung Color EInk Monitor.
You actually get used to the monochrome thing. I've adjusted my syntax highlighting to use more italic, underline, bold etc so you get by without the semantic coloring.
The color eink is way better though. Only downside is that it has less contrast than the purely monochrome one. Color makes up for it nicely, though. Plus the refresh rate on the Dasung is way higher, so you can actually use a mouse without going insane trying to predict cursor movement.
Where the monochrome monitor was more of a secondary display primarily used for coding, I'm now using the Color EInk one as my main display.
I’d really like a Linux laptop with an e-ink screen. I’m well aware of the downsides.
It seems Android tablet with a keyboard or Windows laptop with double screen exist but to live with the limitations of such a screen, nothing would top having full control of the OS interface.
incredible, isn't it, that no single usable e-paper device is being sold. like no Mac with e-ink, no Surface with e-ink, no ASUS with e-ink, even though this is the best thing an operator can do to his tired eyes.
I'd wager that the whole modus operandi for desktop environments is not made with e-ink in mind.
E-ink fits in a situation where only a few updates are ever required, and completely breaks down for anything requiring higher framerates.
The market might just not be big enough to warrant creating a product.
> the whole modus operandi for desktop environments is not made with e-ink in mind
It used-to be in the DOS and terminal days, and it wouldn't take much to get us back there. Shut off all the eye-candy transition effects. Make your web browser, PDF viewer, etc., always scroll a full page at a time, instead of scrolling 1mm when you click on the button or use the mouse wheel. Just those few changes and you'll have something that'll work pretty well.
Besides, even during DOS days, and generally console days, software such as DB2, Oracle, and all the OS/360 offering, was doing absolutely okay. With all the UTF glyphs available to us now (not to mention the chat interface), I can totally imagine super useful and distraction-less TUIs to front business systems. And e-ink/e-paper would suffice most use-cases for the software which brings actual value to industries.
It's not usual for PC, but if you select "remove animation" on Android you're good on 2 fps. Many applications do like crap as the first placeholders are given little attention, but there are only big refreshes, and only handful of apps written so bad that they ignore the setting and make animated placeholder.
The only thing is that you need to stick to Page Up/Page Down for scrolling.
well mine still does leave a trace, because you know - remote desktop glitters now and then, and particularly if you happen to self-host. also with multi-monitors and heavy window use it makes sense to have trails, than not to.
so the old is not so old, and the new is not dramatically new.
I have one of these. It's only 'ok'. There is significant ghosting and it's not very good when the scene is dark, but it's much better than my BOOX tablet. I just got it so I'm still experimenting with different uses.
It functions like a normal monitor. It connected to my Macbook air (M2) and Windows machine without installing anything. It has a USB-C video port, but an HDMI->USB-C converter works too. It has an 1872x1404 (4:3) resolution, which is why I used Miami Vice for the video. It would not connect to my PS5, which I think comes down to the PS5 only supporting 16:9/21:9.
It's specifically says no Linux support. It seems to me that excludes a large portion of tinkerers and those willing to accept the downsides of bleeding edge technologies, which is probably also their target market. Such as me.
CWM or any light WM could perfectly fit. Once you either use terminal tools or ancient Motif applications (or QT with no animations at all), everything looks usable. Forget Gnome 4 or Plasma with all the bells and wistles on.
It could be sold without any dedicated software, and let the community come up with the interface. Just an LVDS display that fits a widely available Thinkpad would do it.
indeed i should've said "save for some smart tablet offerings such as PineNote and Re:Markable". but these are not so useful for data operators, unless keyboard via bluetooth etc.
I wanted an e-ink screen I could just plug-in. Versatile, big and cheap.
Connection is via a VGA or HDMI. Works like an appliance. All automated. Wireless.
Specifications: 1024x768, 6fps, lag: ~1.2s, Connection: VGA or HDMI
Specifications Single Screen: 1024x768, 5fps, lag: ~1.2s, Connection: VGA or HDMI
I don't really want an e-ink "monitor" as that does not really play into the advantages of an e-ink display. By the time the e-ink display is uprated enough to act as a monitor It feels like a lot of the advantages of e-ink are lost and the display server does not really downrate enough to utilize e-ink's strength.
But an e-ink "terminal" would be nice, not an actual tty but something more like a tablet form factor that has a few buttons, little to no internal smarts and you can push images to it.
Yeah... I bought the regular version a few months before the bigger one was announced. Now I kinda want it but can't really justify it at this point. It's a cool product though and a lot of the code is open source or has open source alternatives (e.g. the official backend is not but they have sponsored the development of open source alternatives so that if they go out of business or something you can host your own backend).
I have trouble sleeping, and it gets particularly bad in the winter. I have figured out that at least one of the triggers for poor sleep has been evening screen time. Redshift style apps help a little but barely. I can get away with some light usage of my phone on the dimmer settings, but if I sit down at my multi-monitor desk setup I will be wide awake all night and feel terrible in the morning. And this is with redshift and screens set to their lowest brightness levels.
So I spent a fair amount of time looking into e-ink options as a potential solution. I eventually settled on a refurbished Lenovo Thinkbook Plus G4, which has a flip-able screen with e-ink on one side. I paid around $800 which was less than a dedicated e-ink monitor, and only slightly more than some of the higher end large tablets/e-readers. So it was a hard deal to pass up.
I am happy to report that using the e-ink in the evenings has helped quite a bit on the sleep front. And while the laptop is pretty nice, e-ink in general requires a fair bit of compromise and the laptop in particular has some rough edges. You definitely need to spend some time on your display settings to make things work (high contrast, cursor and pointer visibility, font color in IDE and terminal apps, etc...), but for the most part I can make it work. And while I don't work in sunlight often, e-ink can really shine if you are outdoors (I have the sun shining on my screen right now as I type this and it is super readable.)
Anyways, I guess what I am trying to say is that I really hope more investment gets put into e-ink. I think it is a pretty awesome technology and would love to expand my usage of it. But at least for now it is mostly something that I am tolerating for the sake of sleep.
It's text on the E-ink screen mostly, be it in the browser, a plain text file, Logseq, Obsidian etc.
But sometimes simple writing can be done too. I wouldn't suggest writing code because of the high latency.
Most of my work is reading rather than writing so when I want to read something I use the E-ink screen.
As much as I like e-ink, it has terrible refresh rates. I'd love a larger version of the Sharp Memory display technology that could support at least 80 characters wide, and perhaps 8 bit greyscale. The current ones support 60hz refresh and sip power but are limited to black and white only.
I've tried this setup (and a different setup using a capture card) with a BOOX Note Max but the input latency is just too high to be usable, even for simple cli work.
Are the dedicated eink monitors (like Dasung) better in this regard?
I've been using this solution for about 4 days now.
It's not meant to be used as your main monitor.
I use it only when I want to read something I or someone else has written.
I think it's also good for simple writing too.
But if I try to use it as my main monitor, browsing the web, writing code, etc. it will become a real headache because of the latency.
One huge plus is that it isn't *just a monitor*. because of the VNC connection, I just pick up my tablet and roam around the office while reading something, even making tiny edits, It can be also used as a great drawpad. I use it to explain things to my coworkers, since drawing freehand diagrams, shapes and text isn't very easy with a mouse.
How is the latency for drawing?
I am going to start doing this, but it makes me think, it would be nice to have a way to disable full refresh while drawing, and doing tablet-side drawing over the current VNC frame while the stream is paused, and asynchronously forwarding the input which will hopefully recreate the same drawing path on the server.
I don't know how to do what you are describing, but right now, the drawing is OK. it's not instantaneous but good enough for me, not creating artworks. just doodles and scribbles. I just don't look at the tablet screen for drawing. I only use it as an input because the refresh rate is low for this. but the VNC latency itself is not annoying (I would guesstimate ~0.2s), although I think there are ways to make VNC latency less.
What I really want is an A3 e-ink display that is designed to have a pdf loaded onto it, then can be disconnected and taken around a machine shop. No WiFi or Bluetooth etc
You'll pay out the nose on that. From what I understand, the larger the e-ink screen is the harder it is to manufacture. Which is why small tablet ones reign supreme, and larger monitor sized ones are shockingly expensive, somebody else here has already linked to a 25 inch display for $1800
That’s pretty neat! I’ve been looking at ESL e-ink displays for a while as a more static status display, but the lack of standards and open source software is a problem.
Since Boox runs android, you can also run a shell on it using termius and simply ssh to a host device instead of setting up vnc, if you have a terminal based workflow.
Boox devices are riddled with phone home to all sorts of domains, including to .cn domains, just run tcpdump on your firewall and watch. You should do absolutely nothing security conscious with them. For example, like putting keys on them, or sshing into a box with them.
At least with vnc, you could create a private network between the boox and your linux box, and it'd be sharing the screen. Still an issue, but passwords and hidden fields would be typed on the keyboard on the Linux box, not the boox.
I rooted mine, and installed afwall, and still won't ever used it for anything security conscious.
Well this is no replacement for them!
The monitors you mention are from 700$ (Dasung 13k is 750USD currently) up to 2000USD.
This is an old tablet you maybe have lying around or can get for 200USD maybe?
And this is more than a monitor. the VNC provides you with an interface. you can use your tablet as the input device. and it's also portable.
I use the Boox 10.3 for reading emails, text-based sites like this, and manga. Its bliss and has replaced 80% of my ipad. The experience of using it outside completely trounces normal screens.
As soon as they make larger, better 60hz panels I will 100% switch all my monitors over. I think making videos look worse is a positive. We don't need doomscrolling. We don't need 60fps react buttons with smooth gradients. We don't need to HDR the entire web. I primarily use text based sites anyways, so eink is perfect for me.
I've seen a couple minor, older-hardware cases when they've been powered off with something on the screen for years, but that's about it. in theory they can also "burn in" by not clearing the display occasionally (afaict it has something to do with accumulating charge) but most or all of those should clear eventually after cycling a bunch (afaict, though it can definitely persist to a minor degree for dozens of full refresh cycles). extreme ghosting, basically.
No clue, I've only seen either fully working or physically broken ones. Oldest one I have still has mini-usb and no degradation can be seen. Though I only rescued it this year, it seems like it was used pretty roughly.
I backed this project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/modos-tech/modos-paper-monitor on Crowd Supply to see how close they can come to a "monitor" experience with an e-paper display.
Ooh, crowdsupply looks interesting. This is my first time seeing it.
CrowdSupply is great - I ran a successful project through them. And I would definitely recommend anyone doing some hardware taking a look.
There are a couple of things to be aware of - everything is shipped to the US and then distributed from there (using Mouser US).
From the project point of view this means, depending on where things are manufactured) tariffs can come into play. The terms of shipping to mouser are delivery duty paid - so it’s the shipper who pays.
For backers it does mean people outside of US can pay quite high shipping costs.
The other thing from a project point of view is that mouser is a distributor. They want a reasonable (around 40%) margin on the things they ship.
With CrowdSupply there are two sets of orders:
Orders placed during the campaign - the project gets the full money (minus fees etc…)
Orders placed after the campaign and any additional bulk orders - the project gets the wholesale price.
I wrote a fairly detailed write up of it here: https://www.atomic14.com/2025/07/21/crowd-funding-retro
Excellent write up! This answered some of my questions that I wasn't really comfortable asking creators. A very (and I mean very) long time ago when people were complaining about the price of software I wrote up a Usenet post on why software costs what it does and enlightened a number of people to the fact that yeah, there are many things you don't think about when you're just looking at the list price.
Presumably the contract doesn't allow you to sell product directly if you wanted too. The other thing I'm curious about is that CrowdSupply does continue to list "buying options" long after the creator has gone away. Which makes me wonder if they have some sort of rights to tooling etc post campaign?
Post campaign mouser will continue to order from the creator to keep their stock levels up (assuming the product is selling!). So although the creator may not be actively promoting the product, they may still be doing production runs.
I need to check the exact wording in my contract - but post campaign you can sell through other channels if you want to (which would allow you to do it directly).
Thanks, one of the things I bought on a campaign was a programmable USB hub from 'Capable Robotics Components' and when I thought, this thing is really useful I need another one, they became impossible to get.
[1] https://www.crowdsupply.com/capable-robot-components/program...
Looks like they hit supply chain issues a while back.
https://github.com/CapableRobot/CapableRobot_USBHub_Driver/i...
This was a really interesting read! Back in the day a friend and I started a company and Kickstartered a RPi add-on. The kickstarter campaign failed, but we ended up building anyway after one of the silicon manufacturers spotted the project and provided some FoC devices which changed the economics.
We spent oodles of time on it, learned lots, build a fairly simple product but ended up selling it through some of the bigger RPi retailers. It was all an excellent learning experience, and ignoring our time we made about 50p out of the entire batch of a thousand. Factor in our time and it was a complete financial disaster, but we were young and carefree and had fun doing it!
Same here. I saw a demo in Fosdem which was pretty smooth.
Dasung 253 is a 25.3 inch eink display.
https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-e-ink-monitor-p...
I bought it two years ago for over $1800, and I have to say, it was worth every single dollar.
I can read on it, work on it, (kind of) watch youtube videos on it, play (some) RTS game on it. And mine only had 33hz refresh rate, not the latest 60hz.
Does it support linux based systems?
When I tried (and returned) one of their monitors, it was absolutely horrific with ghosting. This was perhaps 5 years ago.
There was no manual, and it had a closed source application to time or force refresh. Of course, being closed source it wouldn't work on a Pi (arm64), nor did I feel comfortable about unknown code, or it working in a few years on a newer version of Linux.
It was all exceptionally poorly done. Amazon says it was a Dasung E-Ink Paperlike 3 HD Front-Light and Touch 13.3" Monitor.
If the app had been OSS, or it had an open API via the cable, I could have scripted an auto-refresh upon scrolling in vi or some such. Or just hacked into something seeing change scope under X. Point is, I could have made it work for me.
The default modes were terrible.
I hope things are better, but no way will I install some weird closed source client.
I have a fairly new tablet, and it handles refresh incredibly well, but I'm sure that's with strong integration into the display stack. Which is fine, of course, but that doesn't help me with coding.
EDIT: one of the things which makes some of these e-ink tablets incredible for refresh, is partial, very well done sectional refresh. So if a small part of the screen changes, BAM!, it's refreshed instantly for ghosting.
Again, I suspect this is tied into the display stack. The monitors I've seen don't seem anywhere as good. I'd love to to be wrong on newer models.
Input is just HDMI, so works on Linux without issue. There might be an app or something that lets you control the settings, but I've never used that once. All relevant stuff can be configured from the front panel buttons. I think the Mac issue is that macos slightly dithers/moves the image with a high rate which would kill the EInk pixels quickly. There appears to be an app to deactivate this behavior though.
> Input is just HDMI, so works on Linux without issue
HDMI is not always plug and play. I unfortunately encountered a situation where a Phillips HDMI display only worked with Windows, but not Linux due to EDID/Nvidia driver issues
Page does mention Linux but there’s a separate Mac variant (which also needs an app) and a warning never to plug a Mac on the standard variant. What about people who use both?
I cannot make guarantees but I do remember temporarily using it for my Debian installation for my home server -- can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work though. For both Windows and Mac it's just plug and play.
the 60hz version says it doesn't
> Only Support Mac, Windows > Linux is not supported
So it’s ewaste.
Forgot to mention one benefit, for the ultra-lazy like myself.
You can just leave the display on forever and you never have to wait for the screen to wake up again. I use amphetamine on macOS and just set a session forever. I'm more comfortable this way since eink displays don't emit light and thus should consume less power.
I couldn’t make it work on macOS (I.e Mac Studio 2).
Weird. I have a work MacBook Pro m3 and a personal m1 MacBook Pro. Both are just plug and play for me. I actually have my displayed connected to a CalDigit TS3 dock and just connect different computer to the same dock.
What problems did you run into?
Over HDMI I’ve got a no-signal error. I think I’ve tried display port or something else and got very bad ghosting and a kind of very bad contrast issue. You couldn’t really read text(unlike what I’ve seen on YouTube videos). Tried different kinds of settings still couldn’t get it into a working state. Like it needs a special driver or something like that.
I want one of those but I keep waiting for the price to drop significantly. Seems like it'll take forever.
the version you linked is a monochrome one, right? Don't you find it difficult to read and work on it without color?
Yes, it's basically a large Kindle.
For reading and work, I actually prefer this experience. The contrast for text is way better and more crisp than regular LED/LCD/OLED displays, unless you turn the regular display's brightness way up, until which point my eyes hurt from all that light emitted. This was my primary reason for buying such a display -- I love my Kindle and want to use it more, but I couldn't.
Now for entertainment you are obviously limited. For informational Youtube videos you could be getting by alright -- you don't really need to see colors for those. Games is tricky since you could only do non-demanding ones. Shopping gets tricky since you can't see colors. Sometimes I find myself hopping on my iPhone to check before placing orders.
I have both, a Boox Mira pro (monochrome only) as well as a Dasung Color EInk Monitor.
You actually get used to the monochrome thing. I've adjusted my syntax highlighting to use more italic, underline, bold etc so you get by without the semantic coloring.
The color eink is way better though. Only downside is that it has less contrast than the purely monochrome one. Color makes up for it nicely, though. Plus the refresh rate on the Dasung is way higher, so you can actually use a mouse without going insane trying to predict cursor movement.
Where the monochrome monitor was more of a secondary display primarily used for coding, I'm now using the Color EInk one as my main display.
I’d really like a Linux laptop with an e-ink screen. I’m well aware of the downsides.
It seems Android tablet with a keyboard or Windows laptop with double screen exist but to live with the limitations of such a screen, nothing would top having full control of the OS interface.
This sounds like a good opportunity for a 3rd party e-ink screen for the framework laptops.
incredible, isn't it, that no single usable e-paper device is being sold. like no Mac with e-ink, no Surface with e-ink, no ASUS with e-ink, even though this is the best thing an operator can do to his tired eyes.
I'd wager that the whole modus operandi for desktop environments is not made with e-ink in mind. E-ink fits in a situation where only a few updates are ever required, and completely breaks down for anything requiring higher framerates.
The market might just not be big enough to warrant creating a product.
> the whole modus operandi for desktop environments is not made with e-ink in mind
It used-to be in the DOS and terminal days, and it wouldn't take much to get us back there. Shut off all the eye-candy transition effects. Make your web browser, PDF viewer, etc., always scroll a full page at a time, instead of scrolling 1mm when you click on the button or use the mouse wheel. Just those few changes and you'll have something that'll work pretty well.
Besides, even during DOS days, and generally console days, software such as DB2, Oracle, and all the OS/360 offering, was doing absolutely okay. With all the UTF glyphs available to us now (not to mention the chat interface), I can totally imagine super useful and distraction-less TUIs to front business systems. And e-ink/e-paper would suffice most use-cases for the software which brings actual value to industries.
The problem is, you can't doom scroll 1 minute videos on e-ink.
It's a feature of course, but most people don't realize it.
It's not usual for PC, but if you select "remove animation" on Android you're good on 2 fps. Many applications do like crap as the first placeholders are given little attention, but there are only big refreshes, and only handful of apps written so bad that they ignore the setting and make animated placeholder.
The only thing is that you need to stick to Page Up/Page Down for scrolling.
But it was. 90s laptops had a refresh rate comparable to e-ink. That's why the windows mouse cursor can be configured to leave a trace.
well mine still does leave a trace, because you know - remote desktop glitters now and then, and particularly if you happen to self-host. also with multi-monitors and heavy window use it makes sense to have trails, than not to.
so the old is not so old, and the new is not dramatically new.
https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-paperlike-103-the-wo...
This is that product. A 60 Hz eink monitor, for $340.
I have one of these. It's only 'ok'. There is significant ghosting and it's not very good when the scene is dark, but it's much better than my BOOX tablet. I just got it so I'm still experimenting with different uses.
Here's a clip of it playing video: https://youtu.be/povlk3hKTVA
I had no idea such a thing existed, thanks - did you need to install anything to get it working or does it just plug and go like a normal monitor?
It functions like a normal monitor. It connected to my Macbook air (M2) and Windows machine without installing anything. It has a USB-C video port, but an HDMI->USB-C converter works too. It has an 1872x1404 (4:3) resolution, which is why I used Miami Vice for the video. It would not connect to my PS5, which I think comes down to the PS5 only supporting 16:9/21:9.
Wow that’s far more impressive than I expected. I want a laptop with this for programming…
On the product page "Linux is not supported"... What a bummer!
It's specifically says no Linux support. It seems to me that excludes a large portion of tinkerers and those willing to accept the downsides of bleeding edge technologies, which is probably also their target market. Such as me.
CWM or any light WM could perfectly fit. Once you either use terminal tools or ancient Motif applications (or QT with no animations at all), everything looks usable. Forget Gnome 4 or Plasma with all the bells and wistles on.
It could be sold without any dedicated software, and let the community come up with the interface. Just an LVDS display that fits a widely available Thinkpad would do it.
I think PineNote qualifies by now?
https://pine64.org/devices/pinenote/
Also https://usetrmnl.com/
indeed i should've said "save for some smart tablet offerings such as PineNote and Re:Markable". but these are not so useful for data operators, unless keyboard via bluetooth etc.
Whilst they're certainly not Apple, you can walk into most retailers, and out with one of Boox's offerings.
(Just be aware they're open GPL violators.)
I'm replying to this comment on a Daylight Computer.
we (TRMNL) have a working demo, debating what to do with it.
unlisted: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qs7JeK11Cxc
Is it me or there is a lot of ghosting?
There was this one thinkpad that had a eink screen as its keyboard.
Pretty cool, and you could use it as aregular display as well.
dunno how linux would react though.
I hacked together a HDMI e-ink monitor https://barwap.com/projects/okmonitor/
I wanted an e-ink screen I could just plug-in. Versatile, big and cheap. Connection is via a VGA or HDMI. Works like an appliance. All automated. Wireless.
Specifications: 1024x768, 6fps, lag: ~1.2s, Connection: VGA or HDMI Specifications Single Screen: 1024x768, 5fps, lag: ~1.2s, Connection: VGA or HDMI
I don't really want an e-ink "monitor" as that does not really play into the advantages of an e-ink display. By the time the e-ink display is uprated enough to act as a monitor It feels like a lot of the advantages of e-ink are lost and the display server does not really downrate enough to utilize e-ink's strength.
But an e-ink "terminal" would be nice, not an actual tty but something more like a tablet form factor that has a few buttons, little to no internal smarts and you can push images to it.
Funnily you're describing https://usetrmnl.com/ which also happens to be pretty hacker friendly.
Until now, I had resisted the urge to order one
But now that they have a bigger version, with controls and a clear case...
I'm not sure that I should be thanking you for making me spend money!
Yeah... I bought the regular version a few months before the bigger one was announced. Now I kinda want it but can't really justify it at this point. It's a cool product though and a lot of the code is open source or has open source alternatives (e.g. the official backend is not but they have sponsored the development of open source alternatives so that if they go out of business or something you can host your own backend).
we (TRMNL) have a monitor demo, and we also bought a few of the new Modos project, rooting for that creator.
see our demo here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qs7JeK11Cxc
this would do? https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-paperlike-103-the-wo...
No HDMI is really sad. This means there are probably closed source drivers. Linux is not mentioned as supported, so I suspect crapware.
> not an actual tty
Hold up, this could be good
PineNote?
I have trouble sleeping, and it gets particularly bad in the winter. I have figured out that at least one of the triggers for poor sleep has been evening screen time. Redshift style apps help a little but barely. I can get away with some light usage of my phone on the dimmer settings, but if I sit down at my multi-monitor desk setup I will be wide awake all night and feel terrible in the morning. And this is with redshift and screens set to their lowest brightness levels.
So I spent a fair amount of time looking into e-ink options as a potential solution. I eventually settled on a refurbished Lenovo Thinkbook Plus G4, which has a flip-able screen with e-ink on one side. I paid around $800 which was less than a dedicated e-ink monitor, and only slightly more than some of the higher end large tablets/e-readers. So it was a hard deal to pass up.
I am happy to report that using the e-ink in the evenings has helped quite a bit on the sleep front. And while the laptop is pretty nice, e-ink in general requires a fair bit of compromise and the laptop in particular has some rough edges. You definitely need to spend some time on your display settings to make things work (high contrast, cursor and pointer visibility, font color in IDE and terminal apps, etc...), but for the most part I can make it work. And while I don't work in sunlight often, e-ink can really shine if you are outdoors (I have the sun shining on my screen right now as I type this and it is super readable.)
Anyways, I guess what I am trying to say is that I really hope more investment gets put into e-ink. I think it is a pretty awesome technology and would love to expand my usage of it. But at least for now it is mostly something that I am tolerating for the sake of sleep.
Benefits aside, but the latency / refresh rate makes it not usable for practical purpose, ergonomics nightmare.
I love when a blog post starts with demonstration of end result.
So it is vim on the eink screen, mostly?
When writing a lot of LaTeX I wished I had an eink monitor. LaTeX already takes a moment to compile. I’d probably want vim on a conventional monitor.
It's text on the E-ink screen mostly, be it in the browser, a plain text file, Logseq, Obsidian etc. But sometimes simple writing can be done too. I wouldn't suggest writing code because of the high latency.
Most of my work is reading rather than writing so when I want to read something I use the E-ink screen.
Reading this on my eink Bigme Hibreak pro :).
What's the cheapest eInk display one can get, like phone sized or tablet sized? I mean just for experimentation.
I'd look for an Inkplate on ebay. I got the 10 inch one for about £60 which is very good.
As much as I like e-ink, it has terrible refresh rates. I'd love a larger version of the Sharp Memory display technology that could support at least 80 characters wide, and perhaps 8 bit greyscale. The current ones support 60hz refresh and sip power but are limited to black and white only.
I've tried this setup (and a different setup using a capture card) with a BOOX Note Max but the input latency is just too high to be usable, even for simple cli work.
Are the dedicated eink monitors (like Dasung) better in this regard?
I've been using this solution for about 4 days now. It's not meant to be used as your main monitor. I use it only when I want to read something I or someone else has written. I think it's also good for simple writing too. But if I try to use it as my main monitor, browsing the web, writing code, etc. it will become a real headache because of the latency.
One huge plus is that it isn't *just a monitor*. because of the VNC connection, I just pick up my tablet and roam around the office while reading something, even making tiny edits, It can be also used as a great drawpad. I use it to explain things to my coworkers, since drawing freehand diagrams, shapes and text isn't very easy with a mouse.
How is the latency for drawing? I am going to start doing this, but it makes me think, it would be nice to have a way to disable full refresh while drawing, and doing tablet-side drawing over the current VNC frame while the stream is paused, and asynchronously forwarding the input which will hopefully recreate the same drawing path on the server.
I don't know how to do what you are describing, but right now, the drawing is OK. it's not instantaneous but good enough for me, not creating artworks. just doodles and scribbles. I just don't look at the tablet screen for drawing. I only use it as an input because the refresh rate is low for this. but the VNC latency itself is not annoying (I would guesstimate ~0.2s), although I think there are ways to make VNC latency less.
The latency for drawing on the Boox Note Max is excellent. Best on the market or close to it.
Yes they are significantly better. But no battery so no portability.
What I really want is an A3 e-ink display that is designed to have a pdf loaded onto it, then can be disconnected and taken around a machine shop. No WiFi or Bluetooth etc
You'll pay out the nose on that. From what I understand, the larger the e-ink screen is the harder it is to manufacture. Which is why small tablet ones reign supreme, and larger monitor sized ones are shockingly expensive, somebody else here has already linked to a 25 inch display for $1800
That’s pretty neat! I’ve been looking at ESL e-ink displays for a while as a more static status display, but the lack of standards and open source software is a problem.
This is basically impossible due to **** animations everywhere.
Since Boox runs android, you can also run a shell on it using termius and simply ssh to a host device instead of setting up vnc, if you have a terminal based workflow.
Boox devices are riddled with phone home to all sorts of domains, including to .cn domains, just run tcpdump on your firewall and watch. You should do absolutely nothing security conscious with them. For example, like putting keys on them, or sshing into a box with them.
At least with vnc, you could create a private network between the boox and your linux box, and it'd be sharing the screen. Still an issue, but passwords and hidden fields would be typed on the keyboard on the Linux box, not the boox.
I rooted mine, and installed afwall, and still won't ever used it for anything security conscious.
The main thing I'd miss with this, versus using an actual e-ink monitor, is the ability to refresh/clear ghosting from a keyboard hotkey.
There are directly ekink monitors now.
Dasung 13k color is workable-ish even on MacOS with no tweaks.
Well this is no replacement for them! The monitors you mention are from 700$ (Dasung 13k is 750USD currently) up to 2000USD. This is an old tablet you maybe have lying around or can get for 200USD maybe?
And this is more than a monitor. the VNC provides you with an interface. you can use your tablet as the input device. and it's also portable.
I wonder if xpra can be used for this, seems to work really nice on thin clients
Any suggested eink tablet with higher refresh that this would work better for?
Many if not all of the current generation Boox devices. Choose comparison category "Refresh Time" here:
https://www.mydeepguide.com/daf-tool
Be aware that Boox runs Android apps. Many other brands do not.
I use the Boox 10.3 for reading emails, text-based sites like this, and manga. Its bliss and has replaced 80% of my ipad. The experience of using it outside completely trounces normal screens.
As soon as they make larger, better 60hz panels I will 100% switch all my monitors over. I think making videos look worse is a positive. We don't need doomscrolling. We don't need 60fps react buttons with smooth gradients. We don't need to HDR the entire web. I primarily use text based sites anyways, so eink is perfect for me.
I'm writing this on a Daylight Computer. It's been my primary mobile device (instead of a smartphone) for all of 2025. I cannot recommend it enough.
I see btop in the video, I'd like to see a video of btop on that screen.
Using white text on a pink background? No wonder you need an e-ink tablet
How long will the display last like this?
I've been using an eInk screen for over 12 years - it is refreshed multiple times per day.
It is as crisp and clear as the day I got it.
Admittedly, I'm not trying to run video on it constantly and it doesn't get hot. But eInk seems remarkably durable.
That's probably, what, 200,000 refreshes?
From what I gather, at book-reading speeds, newer e-ink displays may never wear out in a human lifetime.
But at usable computer display speeds I rather suspect many of these panels have a lifetime one might measure in months.
from 6.7 to 42 would be my guess.
But being serious, I personally have not seen a degraded e-ink display.
I've seen a couple minor, older-hardware cases when they've been powered off with something on the screen for years, but that's about it. in theory they can also "burn in" by not clearing the display occasionally (afaict it has something to do with accumulating charge) but most or all of those should clear eventually after cycling a bunch (afaict, though it can definitely persist to a minor degree for dozens of full refresh cycles). extreme ghosting, basically.
they seem pretty durable to me.
Even in a lot of direct sunlight or leaving it out in the heat?
No clue, I've only seen either fully working or physically broken ones. Oldest one I have still has mini-usb and no degradation can be seen. Though I only rescued it this year, it seems like it was used pretty roughly.
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