I think some comments here are missing what the blog post is trying to say. This is my read on it.
It's "cool to care" - if you like something, don't be afraid to keep liking and caring about it. With some interests (like theater here), there's external pressure to stop liking what you like, because your interest isn't "cool".
If you pursue what you like on your own, repeatedly, you sometimes find there's people with the same interests. You start to recognize each other. And traveling around the world to participate in the thing you like can have lots of value.
It's the last part, the seemingly ridiculous travel, that I think is a key part of Alex's story. There's something about the kind of people who would travel overseas to see a musical, repeatedly. They really care about what they like. That's an extreme dedication to the interest, and that's how you find people who are also extremely passionate and motivated about their interest, or maybe even just about the community that has arisen around that interest.
That's the part of Alex's story that landed for me. I feel I experienced something similar 15 years ago in my own niche interest, flying from Australia to see Eurovision (before Australia was part of the contest). I traveled alone, but found ~20 other Australians doing the same thing, and some of them attended every year. That shared interest & shared experience became decade+ friendships. And for us it evolved into getting backstage, meeting artists, running local nightclub events with Eurovision artists flown in from Europe to Australia, and somewhat accidentally creating a national fanclub community of hundreds of people.
Crazy ideas around niche interests can spiral and snowball, as you provide ways for the crazy kids to find each other. And that seems to be what's happened here with Operation Mincemeat.
Cool does mean detached and aloof and unpeturbed. And theater kids (and Eurovision fans) "unpeturbed"? Yeahhh... probably not.
But the original cool would not have fallen to peer pressure of what others think either. The Fonz is cool, but The Fonz absolutely cares about his friends too.
When I read the phrase "it's cool to care", the first thing that popped into my mind was this line from the recent Superman movie: "Maybe that's the real punk rock". Like Alex's story landed for you, that phrase really landed for me, especially in the backdrop of how non-badass the Corenswet Superman was compared to the Snider character. (Spoilers follow) He allows himself to care enough to a point that would make him vulnerable: he gets flustered when aggressively questioned by Lane, he feels despondent during captivity, and he loses his temper when the dog is abducted. But the important thing is that he recovers quickly and shrugs off the experiences rather than brood on them. Perhaps the lack of that skill is what leads some people to adopt being aloof/disinterested as a defense mechanism.
I like opera and classical music generally. Musicals too, although only ones written up to about 1950. I was unreasonably embarrassed about this as a kid because it wasn't "cool".
I agree with the sentiment, it is good to care, it is admirable and perhaps virtuous to care.
But it is not cool to care. Cool does mean detached, offhand, poised, aloof, unperturbed. That's why it's called "cool".
We don't need to hijack the term and pretend that it's cool to be enthusiastic and dorky and to talk too loudly when we get excited about something. The point is that those things are good even if they're not cool.
The term has been around since the 1930s, and like all old slang that started out niche and went mainstream, it has been generalized and had its meaning diluted to the point of near-meaninglessness. There are readings of it where it and its opposite could describe the same thing, i.e. uncool and cool are the same. (Easy test to gage meaninglessness.)
I use it as a generic marker of approval or assent similar to "OK."
No, that's myth that we "uncool kids" fall into without realizing it.
Cool means you are confident. You're unbothered by what other people say because you have faith in yourself, you like yourself.
It does not mean "I don't care about anything." It just so happens that the average person doesn't care a lot about "things," so the average cool person doesn't either.
cool means you appear confident, attractive, and socially effortless even if there is effort behind the scenes. the meaning has been stretched to mean "socially desirable" which is a slightly broader category
Confident, attractive and socially effortless are all highly socially desirable traits in a friend or mate. This is obvious to anyone who isn't socially problematic. I can tell you've never been cool!
Who's stretching the definition of "cool?" Cool is a social convention, not a scientific term.
The bottom line is, "people" don't like being around anxiety-riddled individuals with social hangups. They like people who are "cool."
The worst thing you can do if you want to be cool, is get upset about how other people are telling you you aren't.
"cool!" (especially for the uncool) has always meant something that resonates emotionally with you - keep using it that way.
"cool..." means the flat, disconnected response - we don't need any more of that.
This post is definitely about the former, and we can double down by not letting the wet blankets in the comments use the latter to tell us "you're doing it wrong".
> Cool does mean detached, offhand, poised, aloof, unperturbed.
Cool is from “Old English col "not warm" (but usually not as severe as cold)”. If you’re using it to mean detached you’ve already accepted that words can change meanings (add, remove, or modify) over time. ;)
I wonder what criticisms could be leveled at the virtues of proactive energy, passion, and incessant curiosity. I notice that they make me feel slightly nauseous. This is something I'm curious about. What really is a dork?
Someone who might not be very smart per se, but whose mind has not yet been murdered and replaced by a sort of mandatory prosthesis made out of complex conditioned responses (after the operation, they'd be more properly an ork).
Yeah, turns out the uncanny valley effect works in both directions.
Sometimes, I feel like conversation is just a way to talk to oneself, by using others as mirrors of what we want to believe.
That article had that vibe.
I don't care about the show, the author doesn't know why she cares that much about the show, and I really, really don't understand what caring has to do with seeing the same show several times.
>Whenever somebody asks why, I don’t have a good answer.
I'll suggest the author (and everyone reading this) to really, really sit down and think of why they like the things they like. What are the variables that clicked for me when I interact with X ? The theme ? The way the thing is made ? The echo and specific resonance it has with my inner life ?
I would have gained much more from that article if the author had gone to the trouble of making me connect with the show in that way.
"It's a story about friendship", and it's moving. Everything else, and the reason for seeing it twelvety times, seems in fact to be about communing with real-life friends, and only incidentally about the show.
What's that line from Saki ... to whom anything was thrilling and amusing if you did it in a troop.
I think some of the reason that the whole aloof thing has crept in is for self-protection. If you proclaim loudly you love something and others ridicule you for it then you quickly adopt the aloof persona yourself as a defensive mechanism against getting hurt.
Funny thing, looking at the handful of friends I care about - every single one of them, without exception has something they’re deeply passionately into. Photography, or Tour de France, or Design… None of these are interests I share, but the type of personality that can get deeply obsessive about something I find very appealing.
If everything you like is acclaimed/in vogue/politically correct then in my estimation you have no taste at all and you just wait for others to tell you what’s good
One thing the age of the internet brought us, was the ability to easily connect with people over a broad area, who have an interest in something very niche.
You might be the only person in your neighborhood, school, or even town to have a deep interest in something. Others might think you are weird because 'nobody' else thinks that thing is cool.
But post something here on HN or other forum, and suddenly you find out that hundreds or thousands of people around the world also have some interest in it.
This is both the best and the worst thing about the internet. On the one hand, it's amazing how many completely niche things a person might really care about that they can find a community for online. The MAME project doesn't just capture the arcade games everyone thinks about, but it captures things like the old Tiger LCD handhelds, and mechanical games like coin pushers and pinball machines, and even those old bartop trivia games. All because the internet allows a small group of people who really care about those things and preserving those things to coordinate and work with others who care just as much as they do. Heck most of the retro gaming world works on this.
But at the same time, the internet massively amplifies the effects of a niche being taken over by its most extreme members. The middle between "dabbling interest" in a topic and "this topic is my life and I all I do is eat, drink and sleep this topic" erodes very quickly. If you only care a little or only care about a part of a topic, the internet can be almost as isolating or dismissive as the real world around you too. Some of that is a lot of internet communities are actually a small handful of people who are growing together, so they've already covered the same topics over and over that newer entrants might want to cover. But some of it is also just a level of care or obsession that many people won't ever reach. Popping into a "Show HN" thread, especially about something that was built that has either A) been built before or B) isn't clearly built with a business case can be a very depressing experience as "super carers" tear the thing being shown off to pieces for choosing the wrong language, or the wrong library or the wrong security model. And I get that some of this is just people trying to covey hard won knowledge, but it does sometimes feel like the equivalent of having an astronomy club where half the people are amateurs with back yard telescopes and half are people working at and with mountain top radio telescopes all having discussions about the best equipment to buy.
I agree that some topics can be dominated by outspoken 'experts' who don't have very good social skills. They can be hostile to newcomers as they try to keep their little club exclusive. They can also ridicule anyone who tries to introduce a new idea or direction.
But hopefully, the club itself will have enough reasonable members to keep those people in check.
I think some comments here are missing what the blog post is trying to say. This is my read on it.
It's "cool to care" - if you like something, don't be afraid to keep liking and caring about it. With some interests (like theater here), there's external pressure to stop liking what you like, because your interest isn't "cool".
If you pursue what you like on your own, repeatedly, you sometimes find there's people with the same interests. You start to recognize each other. And traveling around the world to participate in the thing you like can have lots of value.
It's the last part, the seemingly ridiculous travel, that I think is a key part of Alex's story. There's something about the kind of people who would travel overseas to see a musical, repeatedly. They really care about what they like. That's an extreme dedication to the interest, and that's how you find people who are also extremely passionate and motivated about their interest, or maybe even just about the community that has arisen around that interest.
That's the part of Alex's story that landed for me. I feel I experienced something similar 15 years ago in my own niche interest, flying from Australia to see Eurovision (before Australia was part of the contest). I traveled alone, but found ~20 other Australians doing the same thing, and some of them attended every year. That shared interest & shared experience became decade+ friendships. And for us it evolved into getting backstage, meeting artists, running local nightclub events with Eurovision artists flown in from Europe to Australia, and somewhat accidentally creating a national fanclub community of hundreds of people.
Crazy ideas around niche interests can spiral and snowball, as you provide ways for the crazy kids to find each other. And that seems to be what's happened here with Operation Mincemeat.
Cool does mean detached and aloof and unpeturbed. And theater kids (and Eurovision fans) "unpeturbed"? Yeahhh... probably not.
But the original cool would not have fallen to peer pressure of what others think either. The Fonz is cool, but The Fonz absolutely cares about his friends too.
When I read the phrase "it's cool to care", the first thing that popped into my mind was this line from the recent Superman movie: "Maybe that's the real punk rock". Like Alex's story landed for you, that phrase really landed for me, especially in the backdrop of how non-badass the Corenswet Superman was compared to the Snider character. (Spoilers follow) He allows himself to care enough to a point that would make him vulnerable: he gets flustered when aggressively questioned by Lane, he feels despondent during captivity, and he loses his temper when the dog is abducted. But the important thing is that he recovers quickly and shrugs off the experiences rather than brood on them. Perhaps the lack of that skill is what leads some people to adopt being aloof/disinterested as a defense mechanism.
Fonzie absolutely cared about being cool, too. It's why he jumped the shark after all. (Pun fully intended.)
People will pressure peers to not care about theatre?
I mean opera I would get :p. Kidding.
I'm not a theatre expert but I feel like recommending the play "The Lifespan of a Fact":
https://www.newcitystage.com/2023/11/21/truth-lies-and-every...
It's based on a true story; the details are unreliably narrated here:
https://www.amazon.com/Lifespan-Fact-John-DAgata/dp/03933407...
I like opera and classical music generally. Musicals too, although only ones written up to about 1950. I was unreasonably embarrassed about this as a kid because it wasn't "cool".
[dead]
I agree with the sentiment, it is good to care, it is admirable and perhaps virtuous to care.
But it is not cool to care. Cool does mean detached, offhand, poised, aloof, unperturbed. That's why it's called "cool".
We don't need to hijack the term and pretend that it's cool to be enthusiastic and dorky and to talk too loudly when we get excited about something. The point is that those things are good even if they're not cool.
The term has been around since the 1930s, and like all old slang that started out niche and went mainstream, it has been generalized and had its meaning diluted to the point of near-meaninglessness. There are readings of it where it and its opposite could describe the same thing, i.e. uncool and cool are the same. (Easy test to gage meaninglessness.)
I use it as a generic marker of approval or assent similar to "OK."
"We're moving the meeting to Tuesday."
"Cool."
No, that's myth that we "uncool kids" fall into without realizing it.
Cool means you are confident. You're unbothered by what other people say because you have faith in yourself, you like yourself.
It does not mean "I don't care about anything." It just so happens that the average person doesn't care a lot about "things," so the average cool person doesn't either.
cool means you appear confident, attractive, and socially effortless even if there is effort behind the scenes. the meaning has been stretched to mean "socially desirable" which is a slightly broader category
This is awesome. A bunch of nerds arguing about the precise definition of "cool." Could there be a more HN worthy comment tree?
Just because I know what it is doesn't mean I can do it.
Confident, attractive and socially effortless are all highly socially desirable traits in a friend or mate. This is obvious to anyone who isn't socially problematic. I can tell you've never been cool!
Who's stretching the definition of "cool?" Cool is a social convention, not a scientific term.
The bottom line is, "people" don't like being around anxiety-riddled individuals with social hangups. They like people who are "cool."
The worst thing you can do if you want to be cool, is get upset about how other people are telling you you aren't.
who's trying to be "cool"?
So if someone enthusiastically shows me some crazy game mechanic they made and I say "that's cool", I am using the word "cool" incorrectly?
"cool!" (especially for the uncool) has always meant something that resonates emotionally with you - keep using it that way.
"cool..." means the flat, disconnected response - we don't need any more of that.
This post is definitely about the former, and we can double down by not letting the wet blankets in the comments use the latter to tell us "you're doing it wrong".
No, you are using it ironically. The connotation of a word is entirely contextual.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cool
"7 informal: b: very fashionable, impressive, or appealing in a way that is generally approved of especially by young people"
This kind of cool is just a phase. After a certain age, it really just looks like you don't want to try living life.
> Cool does mean detached, offhand, poised, aloof, unperturbed.
Cool is from “Old English col "not warm" (but usually not as severe as cold)”. If you’re using it to mean detached you’ve already accepted that words can change meanings (add, remove, or modify) over time. ;)
Sangfroid, even.
I wonder what criticisms could be leveled at the virtues of proactive energy, passion, and incessant curiosity. I notice that they make me feel slightly nauseous. This is something I'm curious about. What really is a dork?
>What really is a dork?
Someone who might not be very smart per se, but whose mind has not yet been murdered and replaced by a sort of mandatory prosthesis made out of complex conditioned responses (after the operation, they'd be more properly an ork).
Yeah, turns out the uncanny valley effect works in both directions.
Found the dork 8)
j/k we're all dorks here
[dead]
Nah, the majority of y'all are jocks or worse.
> What really is a dork?
Well, it's not a whale penis. https://whalerescueteam.org/is-a-whale-penis-called-a-dork/
That article has several pictures of whales, but not a single photo of a whale penis (or a dork).
Sometimes, I feel like conversation is just a way to talk to oneself, by using others as mirrors of what we want to believe. That article had that vibe.
I don't care about the show, the author doesn't know why she cares that much about the show, and I really, really don't understand what caring has to do with seeing the same show several times.
>Whenever somebody asks why, I don’t have a good answer.
I'll suggest the author (and everyone reading this) to really, really sit down and think of why they like the things they like. What are the variables that clicked for me when I interact with X ? The theme ? The way the thing is made ? The echo and specific resonance it has with my inner life ?
I would have gained much more from that article if the author had gone to the trouble of making me connect with the show in that way.
The author says:
> I’d recommend you go to the show if you haven’t already, but that’s not really the point of this post.
So while I agree that it is good to contemplate why you like things, that wasn't the topic of the post at all.
The author quite explicitly say so.
"It's a story about friendship", and it's moving. Everything else, and the reason for seeing it twelvety times, seems in fact to be about communing with real-life friends, and only incidentally about the show.
What's that line from Saki ... to whom anything was thrilling and amusing if you did it in a troop.
A good book in this topic, Virtue Hoarders by Catherine Liu.
https://www.upress.umn.edu/9781517912253/virtue-hoarders/
https://classautonomy.info/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Foreru...
You’re just going to drop a book against 80% of HN like that? What is the context?
I think some of the reason that the whole aloof thing has crept in is for self-protection. If you proclaim loudly you love something and others ridicule you for it then you quickly adopt the aloof persona yourself as a defensive mechanism against getting hurt.
Funny thing, looking at the handful of friends I care about - every single one of them, without exception has something they’re deeply passionately into. Photography, or Tour de France, or Design… None of these are interests I share, but the type of personality that can get deeply obsessive about something I find very appealing.
“You can’t have good taste without bad taste”
If everything you like is acclaimed/in vogue/politically correct then in my estimation you have no taste at all and you just wait for others to tell you what’s good
One thing the age of the internet brought us, was the ability to easily connect with people over a broad area, who have an interest in something very niche.
You might be the only person in your neighborhood, school, or even town to have a deep interest in something. Others might think you are weird because 'nobody' else thinks that thing is cool.
But post something here on HN or other forum, and suddenly you find out that hundreds or thousands of people around the world also have some interest in it.
This is both the best and the worst thing about the internet. On the one hand, it's amazing how many completely niche things a person might really care about that they can find a community for online. The MAME project doesn't just capture the arcade games everyone thinks about, but it captures things like the old Tiger LCD handhelds, and mechanical games like coin pushers and pinball machines, and even those old bartop trivia games. All because the internet allows a small group of people who really care about those things and preserving those things to coordinate and work with others who care just as much as they do. Heck most of the retro gaming world works on this.
But at the same time, the internet massively amplifies the effects of a niche being taken over by its most extreme members. The middle between "dabbling interest" in a topic and "this topic is my life and I all I do is eat, drink and sleep this topic" erodes very quickly. If you only care a little or only care about a part of a topic, the internet can be almost as isolating or dismissive as the real world around you too. Some of that is a lot of internet communities are actually a small handful of people who are growing together, so they've already covered the same topics over and over that newer entrants might want to cover. But some of it is also just a level of care or obsession that many people won't ever reach. Popping into a "Show HN" thread, especially about something that was built that has either A) been built before or B) isn't clearly built with a business case can be a very depressing experience as "super carers" tear the thing being shown off to pieces for choosing the wrong language, or the wrong library or the wrong security model. And I get that some of this is just people trying to covey hard won knowledge, but it does sometimes feel like the equivalent of having an astronomy club where half the people are amateurs with back yard telescopes and half are people working at and with mountain top radio telescopes all having discussions about the best equipment to buy.
I agree that some topics can be dominated by outspoken 'experts' who don't have very good social skills. They can be hostile to newcomers as they try to keep their little club exclusive. They can also ridicule anyone who tries to introduce a new idea or direction.
But hopefully, the club itself will have enough reasonable members to keep those people in check.
"Keep cool, but care" - McClintic Sphere, ca 1959 (fictional jazz musician in V, the 1963 novel by Thomas Pynchon)
As Alex's story illustrates, really caring about something and acting on that can be a great way to find community.
Thank you for sharing this!
Given where the world is, this posts make me hopeful!
Welcome to your thirties! Believe me, if you think it's getting interesting now, just wait.
Went to the theatre and liked it.
Yes. You should try liking things too instead of being dismissive of those who do. Kind of the author's point.
Obviously I’m saying that the article’s content is trivial considering the word count. You know this.
But by criticizing the article I have proved it correct. Which tells us a lot about society.
"Naysayers say nay" - newspaper bulletin, Sim City 2000.
It is a fact known far and wide, from the highlands, to the plains, to the frozen tundra, that only poopieheads disagree with me.