I don't quite understand the singling out of women. The men have been doing this too[0]. And Americans are committing crimes just so they can go to prison and get healthcare.
It is shocking that ANY women are doing this, that's why. There has long been some small number of men, usually homeless ones, willing to commit crimes to go to jail. It's one of the downsides of having humane jails, I suppose.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Japanese culture valued the elderly a lot more than in the west, and therefore stuff like this would be funded by the government?
Pensions in Japan are divided in two systems: public and private.
Which one you have depend of your job type.
Public pensions are extremely low (~5600$/year). They are more a "survival minimal amount" for the elderly than a real retirement pension.
There is also a phenomenon of pride among the elderlies in Japan: It is almost unthinkable for them to ask money to their children (At the opposite, doing so is pretty common in China or Korea).
Considering this context and life conditions, it is no surprise that some elderly with the lowest pensions choose to turn into crime to try to overcome their situation.
Their is a lesson the west should take here: Western countries birthrate follows the direction of Japan ones. Considering our pension schemes will become also at risk, we might encounter exactly the same situation in some decades.
> Considering our pension schemes will become also at risk, we might encounter exactly the same situation in some decades.
Canada here. The maximum possible CPP (Canada Pension Plan) monthly payout is half the average rent for a 2 bedroom apartment across the country.
It's funny, 20 years ago we were talking about boomers not having saved enough for retirement and worries around that... Now real estate has inflated so much that boomers are the wealthiest cohort and most retire by selling real estate then downsizing or renting...
To receive visiting relatives for a couple days. Also when they get sick or break a bone, and need 24/7 assistance for a couple weeks/months, having a second bedroom available is very helpful.
The elderly probably need to live close(r) to healthcare facilities. The vast majority of chronic disease burden is concentrated into the last 10 years of life or so. Living in a rural area with few doctors in proximity means realistic risk of undetected cancer, or having a heart attack too far from an ICU etc., thus dying perhaps a decade earlier.
1. Country wide. In Toronto or Vancouver it's more like 3-4x.
2. Because 2 bedrooms are the most common type of unit so realistically that's the actual "average rent". Statistics that use single bedroom units are garbage because so few units exist.
Property prices are going to crash hard in Canada. The government plans on capping temporary residents at 5% of the population, down from a current 7.5%. That means that 900,000 people are going to have to leave. And that's the Liberal plan. The presumptive incoming Conservative plan is going to cap numbers even harder.
Combine that with a massive recession caused by the Trump tariffs, and expect property prices and rents to plummet.
Rents are already down to a 17 month low, but that's just a minor correction compared to what's coming.
> That removed any hope for many elderlies to capitalize on their properties for their retirement.
Canada is absolutely not the model to follow. The absurd housing market means that actual, productive economic activity isn't happening. In the last decade we've fallen behind many of our peers in standard of living and average income.
They will die natural deaths much earlier and peacefully without all kinds of mental/physical decline if beyond retirement age, they just stop taking any medication.
Especially if they have no plan to do anything other than prolong their own lives for no reason.
I can understand seniors who are active and have something going on in their lives. But if you spend time around hospitals/pharmacies the number of seniors who have nothing going on other than making hospital/pharmacy visits is ridiculous. Its like they are kept alive cause docs and pharma companies can keep them alive. Not for any other reason.
> But if you spend time around hospitals/pharmacies the number of seniors who have nothing going on other than making hospital/pharmacy visits is ridiculous.
Who are you to say this, genuinely? If a person wants to refuse treatment, they are able to even if it would be fatal to them. If a person feels their life is still worth living, who are you to judge that and advocate for making the choice for them? I only bristle because this is also the logic to assume people who are severely disabled are better off dead without ever consulting them (a fact constantly fought against by severely disabled advocates like Alice Wong).
I agree but there is also a pretty large subset of that elderly population that is like "I want to die. Please let me die" and then the nurse is like "ok sure Alice now take your pills"
> the number of seniors who have nothing going on other than making hospital/pharmacy visits is ridiculous
As someone who is part way down this slope, let me tell you: it's not like you're fine, you're fine, you're fine...BOOM! you spend your life going to the doctor. Instead, it starts with "I go to the doctor every few years because I remember to," to "I have this one thing that requires me to check in annually," to "I have to double-check the pills I'm taking in the morning to make sure I'm taking all the right ones," to "It seems like I always have 1-3 doctor appointments pending," to, I'm assuming, what you're describing.
That makes it harder to pick the point where you should step onto the ice floe and wave good-bye to your family.
Japan has a pretty cold family culture compared to other nearby countries like China and Korea. They show respect for the eldery and the elderly have pride but they have broken down a lot of the multigenerational family dynamics that used to exist similarly to their neighbours. Showing respect when talking to elders is different to being close to them and really caring for them. There is also just such an extreme aging population that there is no way to care for all of them.
As a Korean but with many Japanese friends (as well as cousins that live in Japan with a Japanese spouses), I noticed this too.
Was this always the case historically, or is it a more recent phenomenon.
Also, from what I observe, the child-parent relationship is starting to break down in Korea as well. Considering the demographic issues with low birth rates, I imagine my generation will have significant numbers of people without children to take care of them.
I can't tell you how long it has been happening I don't know. But yeah I have plenty of Japanese friends who barely ever talk to their parents, let alone their grandparents. It's quite shocking.
Historically, and in theory, Japanese culture did and does value the elderly highly.
In practical reality...especially in sustained poor economic times, with the "normal" shape of the population pyramid long gone, many families fall short of that ideal.
The nice prison is funded by the government. Think of it as a social welfare program with an innovative barrier to those who do not truly need the help.
Informally, Asian cultures lean on family a lot more for generational support than Anglo cultures, but when you have less/no children it's pretty harsh.
At least in the US, people will say they support the death penalty for violent crimes because they don't want to pay for that criminal to live off tax dollars in a prison. But, they won't do simple research to understand the cost of executing someone far outpaces the cost to keep them in prison for life.
Ask people to bear the massive cost of the elderly and they will say "hmm, well, oh, they should have planned better!"
Ask people to pay for those same people labeled as "criminals" and no price is too great.
All it takes is a few PE firms lobbying for "tough on crime" measures, and the ingenuity to secure a few prison contracts with the state. Problem solved for everyone. Hopefully DOGE will fix these types of loopholes, right?
Having seen a friend without means try to get his elderly father transitioned into a retirement home was shocking. His dad was a vet and even with that it was terrifying as a bystander.
> At least in the US, people will say they support the death penalty for violent crimes because they don't want to pay for that criminal to live off tax dollars in a prison. But, they won't do simple research to understand the cost of executing someone far outpaces the cost to keep them in prison for life.
The contradiction is only in your head. The people who think that also probably think that executing someone shouldn’t cost that much. Bullets are cheap, it is all the appeals which costs money. For many with that opinion if they had their way someone would get convicted, sentenced and then executed in less than a day. Some might want more procedural safeguards. Like an appeal in a month and then execution a day after that. Still massively cheaper than keeping someone locked up for the rest of their lives.
These might be inhumane and monstrous wishes, but they have internal consistency. It is not like the cost of executing someone is constrained by the rules of physics.
"But, they won't do simple research to understand the cost of executing someone far outpaces the cost to keep them in prison for life."
High costs of capital penalty are a deliberate choice. There is nothing intrinsic about executions that makes them expensive. Keeping that person behind the bars for decades while all sorts of appeals are pending is the expensive part.
The British abolished their death penalty in 1965. Prior to that, the norm was "three clear Sundays" from the trial (later, from one short appeal) to the execution. Of all the arguments against the death penalty in Old Blighty, cost just didn't play a role. It wasn't costly to hold someone in the condemned cell for a month, then hang them using a two-member team (usually Pierrepoint and his assistant).
This very much feels like the government could solve multiple problems at once: build facilities to care for the elderly and also decrease the overall prison population.
Of course, it’s not that it will solve the greater situation of an aging populace, but doing more about the consequences of that is probably a good idea, as much as you can!
How would the cost of an elder-care facility compare to the cost of an extremely low-security prison for the elderly? (Not saying that the facility they describe qualifies as such.)
If prisons serve the purpose, attract only the truly needy, and require none of the painful political discussions that setting up a huge system of eldercare facilities would require...
I think the answer is to execute on public housing and manufactured homes.
Imagine a skyscraper or tall mall-like facility with different types of housing and income, including a lot of "min-housing" and "basic housing". Incorporate some kinds of urban agriculture and lots of spaces that can be shared and plenty that can be rented.
Use advanced manufacturing techniques. Something like a Yotel for the min-housing.
Within 5-10 years robotics should also be fully capable of elder care also.
I don’t think wealthier people will choose to live where less wealthier people live. As is, they filter to different neighborhoods with periods of gradation separating them. In a tower, you still have to go to the ground floor to leave.
Isn’t this a situation that social media could actually improve? “Hey everyone that doesn’t have anything better to do, tea and soduku Tues at 7 at local tea shop!”
I don't quite understand the singling out of women. The men have been doing this too[0]. And Americans are committing crimes just so they can go to prison and get healthcare.
[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-47033704
It is shocking that ANY women are doing this, that's why. There has long been some small number of men, usually homeless ones, willing to commit crimes to go to jail. It's one of the downsides of having humane jails, I suppose.
Can we have humane jails and humane social safety nets too?
Humane jails are the safety net of last resort. I wish the US had a humane enough incarceration system for it to provide that role to unhoused folks.
But yeah, there should be a lot of nets above that too.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Japanese culture valued the elderly a lot more than in the west, and therefore stuff like this would be funded by the government?
Pensions in Japan are divided in two systems: public and private. Which one you have depend of your job type.
Public pensions are extremely low (~5600$/year). They are more a "survival minimal amount" for the elderly than a real retirement pension.
There is also a phenomenon of pride among the elderlies in Japan: It is almost unthinkable for them to ask money to their children (At the opposite, doing so is pretty common in China or Korea).
Considering this context and life conditions, it is no surprise that some elderly with the lowest pensions choose to turn into crime to try to overcome their situation.
Their is a lesson the west should take here: Western countries birthrate follows the direction of Japan ones. Considering our pension schemes will become also at risk, we might encounter exactly the same situation in some decades.
> Considering our pension schemes will become also at risk, we might encounter exactly the same situation in some decades.
Canada here. The maximum possible CPP (Canada Pension Plan) monthly payout is half the average rent for a 2 bedroom apartment across the country.
It's funny, 20 years ago we were talking about boomers not having saved enough for retirement and worries around that... Now real estate has inflated so much that boomers are the wealthiest cohort and most retire by selling real estate then downsizing or renting...
>Canada here. The maximum possible CPP (Canada Pension Plan) monthly payout is half the average rent for a 2 bedroom apartment across the country.
1. For cities or rural areas? If you're retired you don't really need to live close to a city center for a job. That'll reduce costs significantly.
2. Why would a retired person need 2 bedrooms?
> Why would a retired person need 2 bedrooms?
To receive visiting relatives for a couple days. Also when they get sick or break a bone, and need 24/7 assistance for a couple weeks/months, having a second bedroom available is very helpful.
The elderly probably need to live close(r) to healthcare facilities. The vast majority of chronic disease burden is concentrated into the last 10 years of life or so. Living in a rural area with few doctors in proximity means realistic risk of undetected cancer, or having a heart attack too far from an ICU etc., thus dying perhaps a decade earlier.
1. Country wide. In Toronto or Vancouver it's more like 3-4x.
2. Because 2 bedrooms are the most common type of unit so realistically that's the actual "average rent". Statistics that use single bedroom units are garbage because so few units exist.
Property prices are going to crash hard in Canada. The government plans on capping temporary residents at 5% of the population, down from a current 7.5%. That means that 900,000 people are going to have to leave. And that's the Liberal plan. The presumptive incoming Conservative plan is going to cap numbers even harder.
Combine that with a massive recession caused by the Trump tariffs, and expect property prices and rents to plummet.
Rents are already down to a 17 month low, but that's just a minor correction compared to what's coming.
> Now real estate has inflated so much that boomers are the wealthiest cohort [...]
That currently should also serve as a lesson for Western governments.
Real Estate price in Japan have been decreasing for decades almost everywhere excepted Tokyo.
The reason are multiple but the main one is also the declining population: Why would you pay more when there is so many empty houses ?
That removed any hope for many elderlies to capitalize on their properties for their retirement.
> That removed any hope for many elderlies to capitalize on their properties for their retirement.
Canada is absolutely not the model to follow. The absurd housing market means that actual, productive economic activity isn't happening. In the last decade we've fallen behind many of our peers in standard of living and average income.
They will die natural deaths much earlier and peacefully without all kinds of mental/physical decline if beyond retirement age, they just stop taking any medication.
Especially if they have no plan to do anything other than prolong their own lives for no reason.
I can understand seniors who are active and have something going on in their lives. But if you spend time around hospitals/pharmacies the number of seniors who have nothing going on other than making hospital/pharmacy visits is ridiculous. Its like they are kept alive cause docs and pharma companies can keep them alive. Not for any other reason.
> But if you spend time around hospitals/pharmacies the number of seniors who have nothing going on other than making hospital/pharmacy visits is ridiculous.
Who are you to say this, genuinely? If a person wants to refuse treatment, they are able to even if it would be fatal to them. If a person feels their life is still worth living, who are you to judge that and advocate for making the choice for them? I only bristle because this is also the logic to assume people who are severely disabled are better off dead without ever consulting them (a fact constantly fought against by severely disabled advocates like Alice Wong).
I agree but there is also a pretty large subset of that elderly population that is like "I want to die. Please let me die" and then the nurse is like "ok sure Alice now take your pills"
> the number of seniors who have nothing going on other than making hospital/pharmacy visits is ridiculous
As someone who is part way down this slope, let me tell you: it's not like you're fine, you're fine, you're fine...BOOM! you spend your life going to the doctor. Instead, it starts with "I go to the doctor every few years because I remember to," to "I have this one thing that requires me to check in annually," to "I have to double-check the pills I'm taking in the morning to make sure I'm taking all the right ones," to "It seems like I always have 1-3 doctor appointments pending," to, I'm assuming, what you're describing.
That makes it harder to pick the point where you should step onto the ice floe and wave good-bye to your family.
You don’t have to have “something going on” for your life to be worth living or have value
Yes, antibiotics might be cheap but the cost is enormous.
Japan has a pretty cold family culture compared to other nearby countries like China and Korea. They show respect for the eldery and the elderly have pride but they have broken down a lot of the multigenerational family dynamics that used to exist similarly to their neighbours. Showing respect when talking to elders is different to being close to them and really caring for them. There is also just such an extreme aging population that there is no way to care for all of them.
As a Korean but with many Japanese friends (as well as cousins that live in Japan with a Japanese spouses), I noticed this too.
Was this always the case historically, or is it a more recent phenomenon.
Also, from what I observe, the child-parent relationship is starting to break down in Korea as well. Considering the demographic issues with low birth rates, I imagine my generation will have significant numbers of people without children to take care of them.
I can't tell you how long it has been happening I don't know. But yeah I have plenty of Japanese friends who barely ever talk to their parents, let alone their grandparents. It's quite shocking.
Historically, and in theory, Japanese culture did and does value the elderly highly.
In practical reality...especially in sustained poor economic times, with the "normal" shape of the population pyramid long gone, many families fall short of that ideal.
The nice prison is funded by the government. Think of it as a social welfare program with an innovative barrier to those who do not truly need the help.
Informally, Asian cultures lean on family a lot more for generational support than Anglo cultures, but when you have less/no children it's pretty harsh.
At scale (large population) doing any job to 100% is hard, even in Japan.
This is the ultimate government hack.
At least in the US, people will say they support the death penalty for violent crimes because they don't want to pay for that criminal to live off tax dollars in a prison. But, they won't do simple research to understand the cost of executing someone far outpaces the cost to keep them in prison for life.
Ask people to bear the massive cost of the elderly and they will say "hmm, well, oh, they should have planned better!"
Ask people to pay for those same people labeled as "criminals" and no price is too great.
All it takes is a few PE firms lobbying for "tough on crime" measures, and the ingenuity to secure a few prison contracts with the state. Problem solved for everyone. Hopefully DOGE will fix these types of loopholes, right?
Having seen a friend without means try to get his elderly father transitioned into a retirement home was shocking. His dad was a vet and even with that it was terrifying as a bystander.
> At least in the US, people will say they support the death penalty for violent crimes because they don't want to pay for that criminal to live off tax dollars in a prison. But, they won't do simple research to understand the cost of executing someone far outpaces the cost to keep them in prison for life.
The contradiction is only in your head. The people who think that also probably think that executing someone shouldn’t cost that much. Bullets are cheap, it is all the appeals which costs money. For many with that opinion if they had their way someone would get convicted, sentenced and then executed in less than a day. Some might want more procedural safeguards. Like an appeal in a month and then execution a day after that. Still massively cheaper than keeping someone locked up for the rest of their lives.
These might be inhumane and monstrous wishes, but they have internal consistency. It is not like the cost of executing someone is constrained by the rules of physics.
"But, they won't do simple research to understand the cost of executing someone far outpaces the cost to keep them in prison for life."
High costs of capital penalty are a deliberate choice. There is nothing intrinsic about executions that makes them expensive. Keeping that person behind the bars for decades while all sorts of appeals are pending is the expensive part.
The British abolished their death penalty in 1965. Prior to that, the norm was "three clear Sundays" from the trial (later, from one short appeal) to the execution. Of all the arguments against the death penalty in Old Blighty, cost just didn't play a role. It wasn't costly to hold someone in the condemned cell for a month, then hang them using a two-member team (usually Pierrepoint and his assistant).
This very much feels like the government could solve multiple problems at once: build facilities to care for the elderly and also decrease the overall prison population.
Of course, it’s not that it will solve the greater situation of an aging populace, but doing more about the consequences of that is probably a good idea, as much as you can!
How would the cost of an elder-care facility compare to the cost of an extremely low-security prison for the elderly? (Not saying that the facility they describe qualifies as such.)
If prisons serve the purpose, attract only the truly needy, and require none of the painful political discussions that setting up a huge system of eldercare facilities would require...
I think the answer is to execute on public housing and manufactured homes.
Imagine a skyscraper or tall mall-like facility with different types of housing and income, including a lot of "min-housing" and "basic housing". Incorporate some kinds of urban agriculture and lots of spaces that can be shared and plenty that can be rented.
Use advanced manufacturing techniques. Something like a Yotel for the min-housing.
Within 5-10 years robotics should also be fully capable of elder care also.
I don’t think wealthier people will choose to live where less wealthier people live. As is, they filter to different neighborhoods with periods of gradation separating them. In a tower, you still have to go to the ground floor to leave.
Also, sounds like Dredd
> Workers help them bathe, eat, walk and take their medication.
> But this isn’t a nursing home – it’s Japan’s largest women’s prison.
Japanese prison system is quite hard on man. Compulsory work, no socialization, solitary confinement as punishment... Nobody is going to "bath you".
Of anything this just proves how privileged some groups are!
Is that true for elderly non-violent men confined in Japan? I thought solitary confinement was mostly a US barbarity. Does Japan use it as frequently?
The women discussed in the article had compulsory work. That's probably part of the appeal, it's good to stay busy and feel useful.
Isn’t this a situation that social media could actually improve? “Hey everyone that doesn’t have anything better to do, tea and soduku Tues at 7 at local tea shop!”