Haha what a coincidence, I bought a 9eSIM adapter a few weeks ago! There is a new eSIM-only card in Germany where you get 3 GB of data plus unlimited SMS and calls per month for free. To order it I had to use Frida and the Android emulator to fool the app into thinking the device had an eSIM. After that you have to do some JavaScript shenanigans on the website to get the QR code. But after that, everything works flawlessly with the eSIM adapter. The card is called "GMX FreePhone".
3GB of Data + Unlimited SMS and Calls for free sounds very nice? Can you share the name of the provider so that we can add it to our eSIM comparison for Germany https://www.monito.com/en/esim-plans-compared
What's the reason for these lower prices? Data only 5gb/month for $5 or $6 seems to be the summary of the link, amazing! I think the answer is there is lots of competition and they've driven the price down to this point. That's an incredible price.
Of course this would be immensely useful. For example, can I put this in my vehicle with built in maps (or just have a hotspot in my vehicle to use with a tablet). As a price comparison, in the us there are some EVs that charge $100/year for basically this, most charge a lot more. That's $8.33/month, so only a bit more than $6 or 7. But in the us it's hard or impossible get anything that low for just raw service, I can't find anything like that.
What’s your use case for the adapter. To use the free service on a non eSIM capable phone? Or for some other stuff? Thanks for the info about the provider. Didn’t hear about the offering yet.
>To use the free service on a non eSIM capable phone?
Yes. I paid 5 €/month for LIDL Connect for 1 GB. I don't need much mobile data and in just a few months the cost of the adapter is amortized. It might also come handy in the future if I travel abroad.
That would be mine, yeah. Set up an old phone with one of those esims from a company that offers small amounts of data for free for watching an ad, then drop it in my glove box as a backup in case something happens to my real phone.
Yeah this, and you need to give them your full address because you have to enter a code that is sent via (physical) mail. Also it has the "Datenautomatik" enabled by default where new data packages are bought automatically when the limit is reached but you can turn this off (it's on by default).
Depending on what 4G/LTE modem/chip your laptop it is using (it must be based on a Qualcomm SoC which 99% are), there are and I can share documents on how you can do the provisioning directly on the Laptop the SIM card is in.
The feature is present in the stock Qualcomm firmware bundle, but vendors like Quectel, Sierra etc may decide if they include the feature or not.
I know this because it is on our dev team To-Do List to implement that for a Linux daemon :)
PhD student here, working on 5G systems. I too would be very interested in this. Email in my profile - and am happy to link you to my academic email once you've reached out if you want to confirm my academic credentials :)
I hope I am not overhyping this. It's just some source code and documentation. And meanwhile I found out that the libqmi team also is already working on an implementation, so none of this may be needed.
To make the source code work in a general fashion with most Qualcomm modems you might have lots of work to do.
Also, as mentioned: It's up to the vendor to decide if they keep the LPA eSIM support in their firmware, or remove it, or disable this in QMI. Sierra Wireless for example for long was known to throw most stuff out because their flash else would not have had enough space for both the PCIe MBIM and USB QMI firmware they needed to implement, so tons of stuff is missing in their QMI.
For some vendors you will need some magic commands to enable some SIM-related features.
So please don't be disappointed if this turns out to be of no use. It's just a fragment that may be able to help solving a puzzle, or maybe not.
I've tried the esim.me and the jmp offerings in the same set of phones.
esim.me was generally quite glitchy and ultimately just stopped working. The requirement of having an esim.me account also just rubbed me the wrong way.
Which one is the best of these? Do they work in every country? I can't tell if the do some internet-connected magic or if they just program the SIM so that it appears like a bog-standard SIM to the phone.
I use an esim.me card in my phone and once you program the card with the esim.me app, it shows up as a normal physical sim card on the phone with whatever plan the esim was for. I believe you can even move it to another device and it will still show up with the same plan, though I haven't tried that.
The only issue I've had with it is that some esim provider apps refuse to work on a phone that doesn't have esim capabilities, and since the phone sees the card as a normal sim card, the apps don't work. I assume that will be an issue for any of these cards. Not a huge issue though, most esim apps/websites will still let you get the QR code or download the profile even if your phone doesn't natively support esim, and you just enter that into the esim.me app to program the card.
I've personally never tried since my phone supports e-sim but people on the internet report good findings with the 5ber card (note that you need the "Ultra" card for iPhone, the other ones are android only).
Buy the airalo esim on my iphone. Download the QR code. Upload it to the mudi router. Activate it there. Voila! I then wireguard back to my home internet in case I need a US on the router. Can also use tailscale, but if my gf wants US internet its helpful.
At least if you’re travelling to Europe there are far cheaper offers with local carriers for about €/£ 5 for 20GB/30days valid across the EU and often UK.
Lycamobile and Simyo usually have good deals though ended up needing to get a physical SIM in Spain as they require showing ID.
I forget if it was with Lyca or a similar brand, but they would deduct 5 cents for each sms before you setup a plan. I was incredibly careful to not do anything and disabled almost everything but apparently iPhone phones home in a way that’s totally hidden from the user and most providers hide and zero the charge but not these rando brands.
Another 5 EUR down to tube because I only had 4,95 for my 5 EUR plan.
Dunno why I put my SIM card in first but I guess I had to for some reason (was on wifi and had access to a computer)
> I was incredibly careful to not do anything and disabled almost everything but apparently iPhone phones home in a way that’s totally hidden from the user and most providers hide and zero the charge but not these rando brands.
It's not "totally hidden". You need to be extra careful to cancel the request to add the new SIM number to FaceTime/iMessage when prompted.
The prompt appears every time the phone is restarted though, and whenever the SIM is switched to.
I have Lyca as my main line but haven’t noticed this before. They do the whole ‘charge £0.01 to validate the card’ thing but that is instantly reversed and a separate transaction.
Overall their customer service is quite possibly the worst I’ve experienced but the network is good and their prices are fair - £10 a month for 25GB I can use in the EU and India.
True. This is what I used to do, but every country does this their SIM setup slightly different:
1. Do I need to show a passport yes/no?
2. Who sells the sim? Do I need to sit in a queue to purchase one? How do I top up?
3. Who is the best telco provider in the region I'm in?
4. etc etc
I'd prefer eSIM all day for that reason. Also, yes I can load up as many local/region eSIMs I want in case I need more, but honestly 20GB is plenty for a full year.
They have coupons every so often on holidays for their worldwide esims. I believe they have one going for Chinese New Years that makes 30GB for $80. The data also has a 2 year expiration that rolls over on any global data purchase.
Downside is their esims (mostly? all?) terminate in Singapore, so higher latency outside of the Asia region.
A 4G/5G router creates a "real" WiFi network rather than a personal network.
Hotspotting is great for 1 or 2 devices, but devices are reluctant to connect to a personal hotspot automatically (Apple devices, at least). You have to manually select/tap the hotspot every time, which gets to be a pain when you have multiple devices and you're using it as your daily, primary internet connection.
I might also want to leave the house/hotel room/office for whatever reason with my phone but keep other devices connected. In this case the router can either be fixed in place (and plugged in) or travel with me on battery. Flexibility!
This. Also, mudi can do everything from act as a WAN, input to a LAN and repeat, connect to a wifi and repeat, and use a SIM for its WAN. Phone hotspot only allows you to take the cell connection and repeat it to other devices via Wifi. It can't repeat a wifi or take a hard wire. Plus no advanced router/switch settings, it just says "use my cell connection and give it to anyone connected to me via wifi"
> A 4G/5G router creates a "real" WiFi network rather than a personal network.
A properly functioning phone hotspot is a "real" WiFi network. The ones created by Android devices, at least, are running `hostapd`, which every Linux-based home router is running behind the scenes.
> devices are reluctant to connect to a personal hotspot automatically (Apple devices, at least).
I own a Mudi v1, it is Chinese and 'just runs OpenWrt' (with mods). I had to use such device for a previous job (not w/eSIM tho). Battery life was good, but now not so much, and battery isn't user replaceable.
So would you not even need a plan for your phone and could do all voice/text/data through this device? Just keep it it with you at all times and running 24/7?
This is neat. I’ve only heard about ESTK [0] and sysmoEUICC by sysmocom [1].
ESTK supports a couple neat features, like cloud provisioning of profiles [2] (which makes it possible to add eSIM profiles on iPhone, too, not just Android).
I'm implementing a fully libre open-source vowifi/volte client for Android that runs in JVM sandbox, rather than untrustable modem. During my development I went through a protocol detail that I was too lazy to implement: you're supposed to announce which is the last 4g cell you saw even when doing Vowifi. I just hardcoded a value and forgot about it.
And then, I get a user who tells me that their carrier is saying they are roaming, even though they don't. I'm a tad clueless at first, because they are the network, they ought to know (this even happen over VoLTE). I send them an updated implementation that reports the correct cell. And then they receive a "welcome back" SMS.
Anyway, it's possible that your carrier can do abroad vowifi, you just need your vowifi client to lie as to where it is.
In case it's of interest, please see https://osmocom.org/projects/foss-ims-client/wiki/VoWiFi_wit... for an existing way how to talk to VoWiFi carriers from entirely free/libre/open-source software. It's basically a hacked-up version of Asterisk that has IMS client support, plus a modified strongswan IPsec client.
At least Vodafone Germany intentionally blocks (or used to block) foreign IPs for their gateway. I'll always trust them to needlessly ruin perfectly fine technologies.
Fortunately, as far as I remember at least iPhones route VoWiFi traffic over a VPN, if any is connected, so that's one way to still use it abroad.
This is actually less unreasonable than it seems at first.
The Vo WiFi spec only defines handover procedures for networks that implement VoLTE, but VoLTE roaming was historically almost nonexistent, although the situation is improving somewhat.
This means that if you go out of range of your WiFi router, your cell phone has no idea how to request a handover from the network, and the call drops.
As noted by other commenters, some carriers (I think all of the UK carriers) use IP-based geoblocking to ensure that Wi-Fi Calling only works when using an IP address registered in the UK.
I think most EU carriers use geo blocking for VoWiFi. A lot of non-European carriers advertise VoWiFi as a cheap alternative for roaming.
For EU carriers roaming used to be a big business (Europe is probably the region where most traveling abroad happens, many small countries close together without travel restrictions). The EU carriers don't seem to be able to let go of crazy roaming charges (5€ per minute and more are not uncommon outside of EU).
I have a dual-SIM Pixel 7, the eSIM "slot" has a data-only subscription, the other slot has a pay-as-you-go SIM that I can make phone calls with (I make so few phone calls to actual lines, that having credit that I can top-up every few months is much more cheaper than paying monthly for free minutes). The PAYG SIM offers WiFi calling, and the phone appears to even offer "WiFi"-calling over the data connection, for a much better audio quality.
> If I have troubles receiving SMSs from Germany to German number while in US, would wifi calling icrease the chances of receiving the said SMSs?
I'm not up to date on the state of messaging infrastructure but it used to be the case that some providers would offer non-standard methods for sending messages over their network to intermediary providers. Rather than sending an SMS to a number, a business would ask the intermediary to send a message and the intermediary would use the non-standard method provided by the network provider. The non-standard methods work fine if you're connected to the network directly but if you're overseas that will not be the case and so you can't receive these non-standard messages. Don't quote me on any of that, though.
The non-standard method is to get the SMS to a delivering SMSC (which is the same network component that's used for mobile originated SMS delivery, which is standardized).
Once it's enqueued in an SMSC, there is no more distinction between how it got there, as far as I understand (at least downstream from there; delivery reports to the sender might again be proprietary for non-mobile senders).
> The non-standard methods work fine if you're connected to the network directly but if you're overseas that will not be the case and so you can't receive these non-standard messages.
This is actually not particular to the way in which SMS have been enqueued, but rather to how they're delivered: The sending SMSC has to "dial" pretty deep into both the recipient's home and visited network in the original implementation. This means that they need a commercial agreement and technical integration with both of them.
Usually, problems/inconsistencies occur when they do know how to deliver to the recipient number's home network (because if they can't, they'd probably have rejected the message at SMSC submission time), but are then redirected to a given visited network with which they don't have interconnectivity.
This problem (and some others, including serious privacy concerns) is solved by a newer technology called "SMS home routing". In that model, there's something like a proxy in the recipient's home network that essentially poses as the receiving phone to the sending SMSC, and then uses the home network's resources to do actual delivery. This usually leads to more consistent experiences, and allows things like a "received message log". (Without a home router, the recipient's home network never sees the message content when the recipient is roaming!)
Many providers actually let you use Wi-Fi calling without any VPN, i.e. they don't arbitrarily restrict the set of allowed IPs that can connect to their Internet gateway.
> If I have troubles receiving SMSs from Germany to German number while in US, would wifi calling icrease the chances of receiving the said SMSs?
Probably not, unless your provider supports inbound and outbound SMS via ISM. If you have an iPhone, you can check whether yours does in Settings -> About -> Tap the name of your carrier. (If it lists "Voice and SMS", you might be good; if it's only "voice" or nothing at all, SMS will go over the visited network.)
Are there even roaming costs at all when calling over wifi? Would make sense to me if there weren't, since you're not using the mobile infrastructure you would be paying for.
Then again I could also easily see telcos charging roaming anyway, just because they can.
Calls can freely be handed over between VoLTE and VoWiFi, depending on signal quality, and that often happens without the user's knowledge or explicit consent.
This means that "no roaming costs over WiFi" is a very dicy proposition, as a carrier either needs to restrict handovers (and I don't even know if that's allowed by the spec, not to mention the implications of dropping calls when going out of WiFi Range), cover the costs themselves, or move them onto the unsuspecting user if a handover happens.
There's also a technical hurdle of the telco can't know where you're coming from over the Internet. The terminate your end of the vowifi call and from there they only charge for the connection as though it originated in their network, which is all they know for sure (that is their SIM and your account that's authenticated from somewhere in the world)
Well, I know at least one provider that looks at your IP's country registration and will block you if they believe it's not domestic: Vodafone Germany. I wouldn't wish their service upon my worst enemies.
Alternatively, use a global eSIM purely for data access, then use your phone as a SIP client (or use something like Google Voice) for PSTN access, eschewing the mobile network entirely.
i think it meant the rims for the punch outs were the best for keeping a nano sim in the reader stable (which presumably took one of the larger formats).
Wrong. OpenEUICC requires a rooted phone or a custom ROM, while EasyEUICC can be installed anywhere. This is literally what the (previously-)dead comment says. The second part is a copy-paste from the project's README.
Correct, I'm sorry. I meant the app, not the module. You don't need the module, just the app. I was confused by the repo name it seems. The app is indeed called EasyEUICC
OpenEUICC needs a rooted phone, while the provider-branded packages like EasyEUICC can run in user space (and thus needs to be signed with the corresponding hash).
-----8<-----
There are two variants of this project:
OpenEUICC: The full-fledged privileged variant.
Due to its privilege requirement, OpenEUICC must be placed inside /system/priv-app and be signed with the platform certificate.
The preferred way to including OpenEUICC in a system image is to build it along with AOSP.
Note: When privileged, OpenEUICC supports any eUICC chip that implements the SGP.22 standard, internal or external. However, there is no guarantee that external (removable) eSIMs actually follow the standard. Please DO NOT submit bug reports for non-functioning removable eSIMs. They are NOT officially supported unless they also support / are supported by EasyEUICC, the unprivileged variant.
EasyEUICC: Unprivileged version that can run as a user app.
This version supports two modes of operation:
Inserted, removable eSIMs: Due to obvious security requirements, EasyEUICC is only able to access eSIM chips whose ARF/ARA contains the hash of EasyEUICC's signing certificate.
USB CCID Card Readers: Only T=0 readers that use the standard USB CCID protocol are supported. In this mode, EasyEUICC can access any eSIM chip loaded in the card reader regardless of their ARF/ARA, as long as they implement the SGP.22 standard.
Prebuilt release-mode EasyEUICC apks can be downloaded here
For removable eSIM chip vendors: to have your chip supported by official builds of EasyEUICC when inserted, include the ARA-M hash 2A2FA878BC7C3354C2CF82935A5945A3EDAE4AFA
Thank you! I came to the comments to find the most open version of this. Unfortunately, the JMP eSIM's order form is broken so I cannot purchase their device (it never asks for city/state and then the order form errors out with "City or state/province not specified")
It seems that bringing up the city/state box after you enter zip code is being slow right now. if you wait a bit do they show up for you after entering zip code?
You're right! It took 7 minutes according to chrome dev tools but the state and city did eventually show up. Then my credit card's fraud protection declined the order so I had to go back and watch the spinner spin for another 5.2 minutes but I eventually was able to purchase one.
I wonder if there's a reversed solution: using physical SIM card on devices that have only eSIMs. The use case: recent fewer versions of iPhone support only eSIMs, yet we will need a physical sim when traveling in China (yes yes, one could use roaming. It's just that with a China phone number, one can do more).
Supposedly the people doing this at scale (for grey imports?) even de-solder the eSIM module and resell it, but I have my doubts about that part of the story.
Are there any TrustZone based eSIM implementations yet? I've heard about plans for a couple of times but haven't been following that closely.
I'm not sure if iPhones still have a physical module; it would make a lot of sense for Apple to combine the eSIM implementation with the payments secure element (I think they hold some patents to that extent), but I'm not sure if they already do that.
It’s to connect phone numbers to identities. Getting a physical sim in China involves going in person to a store where they keep your passport and a mugshot (you hold a paper with your number on it) in a database.
There’s no free WiFi without requiring a phone number. It allows the government to connect internet users to real identities.
A big reason is that an eSIM is virtual, which means anyone can easily get an eSIM that allows them to punch through the great firewall -- a defeat that the Chinese government would never allow to happen
But normally you wouldn't want to use a local SIM in China because of the great firewall. I usually buy local SIMs but China is an exception. I can't live without Wikipedia.
You may find yourself in that situation if you have a device that only supports SIMs, and you can't use any of the cheap travel esim providers with it. For travel, you would replace your local SIM with the 9eSIM, and be able to switch providers depending on destination. The difference can be huge in some countries, where a local provider's travel plan can be 30 to 50 USD, while a equivalent on an ESIM provider is just $4.
I live in such a country and have parents with older phones who can't use esims, so the value is obvious to me. :)
In which countries are eSIMs cheaper? I have never encountered this in Africa or in Asia. I was just in Vietnam, a local SIM was probably 50% cheaper than anything I could find on esimdb.
Currently I'm in Georgia, unlimited internet for a week is 9 GEL, or around 3ish USD per week. The cheapest on esdimdb is 19 USD for unlimited internet for a week.
What we usually do when we travel is buy the cheapest eSIM, usually on some introductory offer to get like 1GB for 1 USD (so we can order taxis, maps etc), then go to a local provider and get a local SIM.
One place where an eSIM was a good choice was China. I don't quite understand how it works, but it seems if you use an eSIM in China you get around the great firewall without needing a VPN.
I wish eSIMs were cheaper, so I wouldn't have to deal with the headache of doing that. When going to local providers, sometimes they offer an eSIM option, but there is usually no price difference.
> I don't quite understand how it works, but it seems if you use an eSIM in China you get around the great firewall without needing a VPN.
That's just the default for most mobile data services, eSIM or physical SIM. Your home network provides Internet connectivity. "Local breakout" (where you get an IP of the visited network) has never really taken off for various reasons, one being that people actually like being able to access everything they also can at home.
I also strongly suspect that this is why iPhones in China don't have any eSIM capability.
I don't know if eSIMs are more expensive or less than a local SIM, but they are much more convenient for me when I travel. I can have working internet as soon as I step off the plane, which is great for finding transportation and not having to deal with kiosks that won't speak any language I know and might be closed. I don't have to hand over my passport to get a SIM, and in China they get around the firewall. The cost of an eSIM vs the cost of travel is too small to notice but the convenience is always noticed.
Currently traveling, and the savings are real. Although in this case it’s the opposite: travel eSIMs rates are about $80 for data for 30 days, whereas a cheap local prepaid SIM card is $8-16 (but with no eSIM option)
The service is called Holafly, it was advertised on the plane, and my travel mate bought it without hesitating (because of the convenience of an eSIM, even though they didn’t get a local number)
That's basically guaranteed to be overpriced. Anything prominently advertised means you're going to be paying for the advertising budget.
Also, it's "unlimited data", which probably makes it more expensive than it needs to be due to adverse selection. For instance it charges $50 for 15 days in europe, but on esimdb[1] you can easily find esims for just over $1/gb. It might still be worth it if you're using absurd amounts of data, but citing it as an example of esims being very expensive doesn't really make sense.
I don't know about europe but 40 to 80usd for 15GB for 30 days in Mexico is completely crazy when you can get a physical telcel sim card with 25GB and unlimited data for whatsapp and all major social medias, which means you can easily go for the smaller 10GB (15usd) or 7GB (10usd) choice if the most you will transfer is on social medias and whatsapp.
I found my google maps app for navigation and image translation via google lens/translator app ate up a ton of my data. I had to turn off off a setting or two to reduce the maps data.
In my experience, getting an eSIM is usually cheaper than the airport SIM card plans, but often there are cheaper plans available when you get to the city. In any case, having both options is nice!
I think it depends on how you define “developing countries”!
I’m currently in Thailand and I got 6 GB for about $2 total (50 baht for the SIM with 3 GB for 3 days, another 20 baht top up for another 3 GB / 3 days). I did use eSIM for about a month before that though (I just wanted a local number to order some stuff from Lazada).
Another example (also from Southeast Asia, FWIW): Malaysian SIMs are also cheaper, though topping them up is painful so I’d personally stick with an eSIM there.
I expected to use an eSIM when I went abroad for a month last year. It turned out the providers offering "travel eSIM" are 2 to 4 times more expensive compared to buying a prepaid physical sim at the counter valid for 30 days.
Quick note that "the counter" may not exist or be hard/time consuming to track down and then there may be language barriers and also identity proof requirements that you can't meet. So service that's available and working as soon as your boots hit the ground do have some value.
One announce with eSIM is that you can’t move them freely, despite being advertised as equivalent. Depending on the provider it can get quite complicated (physical visit in store, fees) to move to another device.
>Or does the esim spec have some kind of DRM to require you to use physical hardware with an embedded yet secret-to-you key?
Yes. Basically there's an accreditation process by the GSMA, and if your esim doesn't have a certificate chain leading back to GSMA, you won't be able to get your esim provisioned.
The QR codes that provision the eSIM are single-use.
Most "real" carriers will of course let you migrate your eSIMs, with varying degrees of pain involved (my Japanese eSIM migrated automatically from iPhone to iPhone; the German one involved making a phone call); but ~all "travel plans" eSIMS will be single-use only.
The QR codes aren't really single-use, my carrier reuses the QR code and you can move devices by removing the eSIM from one and re-importing the QR code on the newer. (The QR code is invalid so long as the eSIM is provisioned on a device, not necessarily powered on)
I got a second hand mobile router with SIM support, but very good hardware for 50$. I ordered a Esim adapter SIM for $20 and just switch to the cheapest network wherever I am.
Easily saved $300 to a comparable device with Esim support.
I can't speak to anyone else, but I have a phone about a year too old for e-sims to have been commonplace, but I still need to travel, and services like airalo (global sims to go) are basically e-sim only -- so my secondary sim slot is a reprogrammable eSIM.
Let’s say you land in a new country that your primary provider won’t roam to for free or at all, there’s no need to visit the airport shop that sells SIM cards with limited options and try to buy and set up something which is often in a different language.
You can buy your eSIM service at the best possible price ahead of time online and have it ready to go when you land, and you don’t have to upgrade your not-that-old phone to do so.
quote from TFA
"Since I want to use the SIM with the integrated WWAN modem of a laptop running Linux, I was keen to see if I could get this all to work using Linux and Free software."
I clicked this as I don't think there's a phone meeting my prefrences (repairable, runs mostly mainline linuix) that has esim. There all regular sim. So something like this could expand options carrier wise.
Well, one nice thing is that a device like this allows you to use the services that are trying to lock you with an eSIM in the same way that you use a normal consumer friendly SIM.
Because you can buy cheap short term data plans in most countries online. Getting a physical prepaid SIM is often a pain, especially in places like the US.
Almost the entirety of the enthusiasm for this post is based on people running crippled OSes (iOS, mainly) which won't let you tunnel 100% of traffic over a VPN.
I wish I knew if this would have helped me on a recent trip out of the U.S. In preparation, I upgraded my older, low-end smartphone to one with a more recent version of Android, NFC (for tap-to-pay), a headphone jack, and support for two physical SIMs.
So when I arrived at my destination, I was able to purchase a 30-day SIM for a local phone number and data, but my primary SIM was useless outside of the U.S. so no access to my primary phone number (I ended up using WhatsApp a lot). My carrier (Boost Mobile) advertised an add-on for "Global Roaming", but despite non-trivial time spent reading and talking to them on the phone, I got merely a vague impression that only an eSIM would have allowed me to continue to use my primary number out of the country. Would this solution have worked for me?
Meanwhile, I still have the (now deactivated) second SIM in my phone, hope that is not a security risk of some kind.
I really don't see the connection between an eSIM and your SIM not working abroad here.
All an eSIM does is replace a physical one with a "digital" one. You'd still be using your carrier in these places. For your sim to work, your carrier would need to have agreements in place with providers in the country you're in. And then they'd charge you an extortionate amount of money to making any calls or use any data.
He's probably talking about how on iPhones[1] and some Androids[2], you can do something called "wifi calling using cellular data" or "backup calling", which basically enables you to roam for "free" on your one SIM by using wifi-calling over the data connection of the second SIM. It only triggers if the first SIM doesn't have any reception, but there's workarounds for that, but in any case it's not as simple as installing an eSIM and getting free roaming.
Another factor for international travel is whether you phone has the right bands to get signal. My carrier claims to have international roaming, but I look up what bands my model phone has and what the country I'm going to uses and I pretty much would not get signal anyway.
Are you sure? There's a pretty good overlap these days in globally supported bands on at least a baseline level.
You might not be able to use a provider's extended/rural or dense urban canyon filler cells, but I haven't yet been to a place where I didn't get any roaming connectivity at all.
In some countries (the US included), providers restrict the ability of devices not capable of e.g. VoIP to connect on certain bands (as there is no circuit switched fallback available there, and there's an FCC mandate that calls, in particular 911 calls, have to work wherever data works), but that's usually not applied to inbound roaming guests.
> Are you sure? There's a pretty good overlap these days in globally supported bands on at least a baseline level.
Most Chinese imported phones have really poor band support in the US. Lucky to get band 2 and band 5 at best.
> In some countries (the US included), providers restrict the ability of devices not capable of e.g. VoIP to connect on certain bands (as there is no circuit switched fallback available there, and there's an FCC mandate that calls, in particular 911 calls, have to work wherever data works), but that's usually not applied to inbound roaming guests.
US all circuit switched data is basically gone except for a few rural carriers and maybe a few pockets of 2G left on T-Mobile (was shut down on my local towers in past few weeks). Unsure of the 911 IMS carrier profile support on models not intended for US market.
Recently I tried to reinstall an eSIM on my Android phone while overseas but was told by my carrier that the eSIM can only be activated while connected to antennas located in the carrier's country, i.e. it can't be activated overseas, despite my plan supporting call roaming and both countries being in the EU.
I don't know whether this is carrier-specific or the same for all carriers.
This worked for me, French carrier "Free", and install new eSIM while in Spain.
But now I have doubts, especially outside the EU: if it doesn't work, that would loose one of the advantages that I'd sort of expected eSIM to have: if your phone gets lost / stolen while abroad, you could just get a new eSIM from your carrier immediately, and set it up on your replacement phone.
In my case, my bank uses mandatory SMS 2FA for setting up their app on a new phone, thus making it impossible to make purchases with my card without having the being able to set up the app.
So I'd be back to the oldschool method of having a fried back at home set up the new eSIM, receive the 2FA code...
I think almost all carriers require this. I've seen mentions that the Google Fi eSIM requires US towers to activate, but can be moved / reinstalled later without them (didn't test it though).
Just an end user, so don't quote me on this, but I think that requirement was largely a legacy Sprint requirement.
I've purchased newer Pixel devices from my local shop and activated Google Fi just fine overseas. (with the caveat that I might not have all of T-Mobile's bands if I'm back in the US).
Is there any effort towards enabling increased privacy against tracking by "rotating" eSIMs amongst a group of individuals? The article mentions capacity for 50 profiles, what would be the legal and/or implementation effects of such a Local-Profile-Agent?
You can't transfer eSIMs between devices. iPhones support "transfers" but in reality it involves the carrier reissuing it. You'd have to transfer the physical device, which is going to be a pain.
>Is an activated eSIM linked to the device's MAC address, making it impossible to use with a different device?
After an esim is "activated" it's bound to the esim chip. By design, you can't copy it onto another esim chip or device. If you want to transfer devices, you need to ask your carrier to issue you another esim.
That should work, as "physical eSIMs" are usually not bound to the device they're in in any way. Your provider might restrict the set of allowable IMEIs conencting per SIM (profile), though.
That's not quite true: Some eSIM profiles can be reinstalled, sometimes only on the same device, sometimes only on a limited number of devices or a limited number of times, but sometimes they're really as versatile as the physical SIMs they're replacing.
It's ultimately up to the provider which model they choose, but I really like the ones that allow both reuse of an existing profile and make it easy and free to provision a new one if required (e.g. due to a lost or broken device).
Does anyone have any resources which explain why eSIMs tunnel your network traffic to the provider? My mental model for old fashioned physical SIMs is that they would roam on the network you're visiting. ie, a Chinese physical SIM on a US network would show up from the US network, and would otherwise be normal except that the phone and network traffic would be very expensive. My understanding of eSIMs is that they act more like a VPN; your network (and phone?) traffic is tunneled back to the home network.
Most carriers only have servers in their home region capable of handling the traffic. It is possible to have regional servers for this, but most carriers don't bother with the expense. Roaming data is usually expensive or restricted in usage - so there's traditionally been very little demand for higher speed connectivity.
Travel eSIMs are usually just a regular SIM with a very limited plan from a carrier that has favourable roaming deals.
> My mental model for old fashioned physical SIMs is that they would roam on the network you're visiting.
No, that's never really been the case. It's technically possible (and called "local breakout"), but for various reasons I also don't fully understand, it's usually not done that way.
One is legal liability for user actions; another is accessibility of services at home, such as banking apps, that are probably more comfortable with a familiar IP.
I think this is a peculiarity of the short-term travel eSIM providers (like Airalo). If I recall correctly, when I went to Bermuda, the Airalo eSIM would route the traffic through Isle of Man. They have some of the most odd agreements with random telecoms to get coverage and cheap rates.
Partly I think it's skirting around local regulations (e.g. if a country required SIMs to be registered with the owner's information, but you provision the SIM from a nearby country's telco and route traffic through there maybe you can get around it).
But as far as I understand this has nothing to do with eSIMs and a lot to do with Airalo trying to cover every corner of the world for cheap.
Hmm that's kinda nice. I don't like eSIMs because the provider often imposes arbitrary constraints. Either needing their data-stealing app, only allowing so many changes per month, only allowing 'certified' handsets, having 2FA bullshit etc.
I just want to swap my number into different phones like I can with a physical card, without anyone else's involvement or approval.
If I could just grab an esim and download it onto a physical card that would be great.
What country is this, if you mind sharing? I've never encountered any of these problems. I've received almost all my eSIMs as a QR code, and the ones that did offer app-based installation (which is convenient if it works, but ultimately not more than that) have a QR code for fallback.
> only allowing so many changes per month
That I have actually encountered. I've seen one (fortunately only when traveling) that actually charges a "SIM fee" for each new eSIM profile installed, and they don't allow reinstalls of my initial one...
Charging for a new eSIM is dubious even if a profile is reinstallable, but it's less of an issue for me, as I'd only have to do that if I lose a phone, or it fails to a point where I can no longer remove the installed eSIMs so that I can redownload them on another one.
This was in Holland, one of the MVNOs. They had a crappy app and it would generate a different QR code every time (so they were not reusable).
And a lot of operators have restrictions on phones. Imported phones are often blocked (and also not given access to VoLTE).
For me it is a big deal if it charges "sim fees". I do swap my sims very regularly. For testing, or to put one in my tablet when I travel. I just want to be fully free to do as I please.
But luckily I only use prepay these days and none of the carriers here in Europe that do prepay offer eSIM anyway.
They have great roaming deals so I like having its eSIM always installed, but if I change iPhone I have to visit a store Thailand. Fantastic. I ended up switching it for a physical SIM card.
The prices charged are often too high but depending on the setup the provider is using they might actually pay a vendor a fee every time an eSIM profile is generated.
that's only needed on non-rooted Android, due to security restrictions imposed by android. OP even mentions using an open source tool (lpac) with his esim adapter.
I don't really like the move to eSIMs, or rather the removal of physical SIM card (slots.) A physical thing is a lot easier to reason about, and you can swap them in seconds.
I've never heard of any of these things (~2k mobile devices at work). I've had a hand in writing some policies for our company for our mobile devices and with Verizon, ATT, and T-Mobile, 0 issues with esims.
Previously, https://www.androidauthority.com/esim-adapter-android-phone-... said "While there are other eSIM adapters, the JMP adapter is the only one that doesn’t use a proprietary, closed source app." Is that still true, or is this one now a second FOSS option?
This seems like it might be useful for web scraping. Ive been having a munch easier time scraping/ not having to buy proxies since moving to strictly 5G modems. Something like this might help get past the two sim limit on both devices.
I'm interested in solving the opposite problem: using physical SIMs with devices that only have eSIM. This is extremely important when going to mainland China as physical SIMs are required there.
Using an eSIM data on a physical sim is relatively straightforward; getting the keys from a physical SIM to use as an eSIM is relatively non-trivial, as "the card is designed to never divulge this key to the outside world".
I wonder if there's a way to use a dongle (or a small wireless Bluetooth device or something) to connect a physical SIM to a phone that doesn't have a physical SIM slot.
For internet access - sure. For messages - sort-of. For calls - troublesome.
As far as I know, smartphones don't have a protocol for accessing a remote cellular network connection in the same way as if it was internal, so the only viable way is to have a hotspot device that shares the connection over wi-fi.
With an eSIM activation, the only possibility is that someone else e.g. reads the QR code from your screen and activates the eSIM on their device; but you'll notice that since eSIM activation will fail on your end, and will likely request a new one. But that does provide some window for a targeted attack.
With a physical SIM, there's a much easier attack available, in form of extracting the SIM itself from your phone. It isn't a remote attack, but it might even take you longer to notice.
Arguably, an operator's support of remote eSIM activation (whether you use it or not) is the biggest attack vector, since it allows an attacker to impersonate you and request a new eSIM.
Transitioning to eSim-only could enslave us even further, as if Windows 11 secure boot shenanigans were not enough. Please raise this with your favorite digital freedom advocate. Let's be proactive on this one.
Yeah, I really hate not having to physically juggle small smartcards whenever I want to use another network/provider (my phone has several eSIM profiles installed right now), being able to choose from dozens of providers competing on price and functionality, and not having to stand in line at the SIM store first thing after a long-haul flight too.
eSIMs could have been an anti-consumer nightmare, but fortunately they were really done exactly right. I really sometimes find it hard to believe how lucky we got on that one; they could have easily been a carrier lock-in mechanism like ESN/MEID based provisioning was.
> Let's be proactive on this one.
Even if you had a point, you're years too late. iPhones are sold without a SIM slot in some countries already (and I love it).
You can't just take "important" esim out of your phone when travelling. If you lose your device or if it's stolen recovering eSIM from many countries is PITA.
I can delete mine and then reinstall it on any device from the QR code if required. Not all providers allow that, unfortunately, but I wouldn’t use one that doesn’t allow instantly receiving a new QR code in some way.
> eSIMs _could_ have been an anti-consumer nightmare
Really? Because I can swap a SIM card between phones in 30 seconds whereas swapping eSIM lies between "hoping it works" and "not possible", passing by "you'll need a document" or "visit the store, if it's anywhere in your city/country"
Yes, but that's a problem of bad people, not guns.
Either way, the end result is that I have to identify myself at a store to move some eSIMs and many are simply not transferable (particularly from Airalo)
Airalo SIMs wouldn't even exist without eSIM, so arguably that's still a consumer win, not a loss, even though I obviously also wish they were transferable.
> Transitioning to eSim-only could enslave us even further, as if Windows 11 secure boot shenanigans were not enough
How are eSIMs "enslaving" people? Or for that matter, Windows 11 secure boot? There's plenty to complain about in Windows 11 from a privacy perspective, but secure boot is your problem?
Even media created with MS's own USB imager didn't work with my DIY build. May be related to Asus' UEFI but there's no proper diagnostic facility to know. I said screw it, and used Rufus to bypass any MS nonsense at the same time.
And how? The same way SIM locks did. EU made them illegal not without reason.
> And how? The same way SIM locks did. EU made them illegal not without reason.
SIM locks were for operators to lock phones they sell you only to their network. You can install any eSIM, including from random MVNOs all around the world.
Haha what a coincidence, I bought a 9eSIM adapter a few weeks ago! There is a new eSIM-only card in Germany where you get 3 GB of data plus unlimited SMS and calls per month for free. To order it I had to use Frida and the Android emulator to fool the app into thinking the device had an eSIM. After that you have to do some JavaScript shenanigans on the website to get the QR code. But after that, everything works flawlessly with the eSIM adapter. The card is called "GMX FreePhone".
3GB of Data + Unlimited SMS and Calls for free sounds very nice? Can you share the name of the provider so that we can add it to our eSIM comparison for Germany https://www.monito.com/en/esim-plans-compared
What's the reason for these lower prices? Data only 5gb/month for $5 or $6 seems to be the summary of the link, amazing! I think the answer is there is lots of competition and they've driven the price down to this point. That's an incredible price.
Of course this would be immensely useful. For example, can I put this in my vehicle with built in maps (or just have a hotspot in my vehicle to use with a tablet). As a price comparison, in the us there are some EVs that charge $100/year for basically this, most charge a lot more. That's $8.33/month, so only a bit more than $6 or 7. But in the us it's hard or impossible get anything that low for just raw service, I can't find anything like that.
It's in the last sentence - GMX FreePhone. It's not one of those "travel eSIMs" though, you need to live in Germany.
What’s your use case for the adapter. To use the free service on a non eSIM capable phone? Or for some other stuff? Thanks for the info about the provider. Didn’t hear about the offering yet.
>To use the free service on a non eSIM capable phone?
Yes. I paid 5 €/month for LIDL Connect for 1 GB. I don't need much mobile data and in just a few months the cost of the adapter is amortized. It might also come handy in the future if I travel abroad.
That would be mine, yeah. Set up an old phone with one of those esims from a company that offers small amounts of data for free for watching an ad, then drop it in my glove box as a backup in case something happens to my real phone.
so it's possible to use an android emulator + esim on PC to make call / send sms?
Thanks for mentioning the provider.
How much registration is required? I can see this being useful for some things :)
It requires that you give them your bank account details.
The stated reason is because you can call premium services and run up a charges even with a free service.
Yeah this, and you need to give them your full address because you have to enter a code that is sent via (physical) mail. Also it has the "Datenautomatik" enabled by default where new data packages are bought automatically when the limit is reached but you can turn this off (it's on by default).
[dead]
In case the original author reads this:
Depending on what 4G/LTE modem/chip your laptop it is using (it must be based on a Qualcomm SoC which 99% are), there are and I can share documents on how you can do the provisioning directly on the Laptop the SIM card is in.
The feature is present in the stock Qualcomm firmware bundle, but vendors like Quectel, Sierra etc may decide if they include the feature or not.
I know this because it is on our dev team To-Do List to implement that for a Linux daemon :)
> In case the original author reads this
He has :)
> there are and I can share documents on how you can do the provisioning directly on the Laptop the SIM card is in.
Yes, please!
Done.
PhD student here, working on 5G systems. I too would be very interested in this. Email in my profile - and am happy to link you to my academic email once you've reached out if you want to confirm my academic credentials :)
Sent.
I hope I am not overhyping this. It's just some source code and documentation. And meanwhile I found out that the libqmi team also is already working on an implementation, so none of this may be needed.
To make the source code work in a general fashion with most Qualcomm modems you might have lots of work to do.
Also, as mentioned: It's up to the vendor to decide if they keep the LPA eSIM support in their firmware, or remove it, or disable this in QMI. Sierra Wireless for example for long was known to throw most stuff out because their flash else would not have had enough space for both the PCIe MBIM and USB QMI firmware they needed to implement, so tons of stuff is missing in their QMI.
For some vendors you will need some magic commands to enable some SIM-related features.
So please don't be disappointed if this turns out to be of no use. It's just a fragment that may be able to help solving a puzzle, or maybe not.
Not the OP, but I would appreciate any docs you could share. I have an email in my profile. Thank you!
Sent.
I'd be very much interested in those documents.
You can reach me via mail to s at username dot eu
TIA
I'll clean up the stuff so I can not be identified as the leaker and send it to you.
I'd be interested as well.
Sent.
if you could send it my way, email is in profile
Sent.
These have been around for a while.
Alternatives:
https://esim.5ber.com/
https://esim.me/
https://jmp.chat/esim-adapter
Just an anecdotal single data point:
I've tried the esim.me and the jmp offerings in the same set of phones.
esim.me was generally quite glitchy and ultimately just stopped working. The requirement of having an esim.me account also just rubbed me the wrong way.
jmp has been a seamless experience so far.
I also bought an esim.me card a while ago before they started to jack up the prices. It worked one or two times, but stopped working after.
I ordered a 5ber yesterday, and waiting for it to arrive.
Also a +1 for JMP. not glitch free, but I think the glitches were in me, and in the eSim provider. The tool(s) do what they say on the (virtual) box.
+1 jmp a bit weird interface but no artificial restrictions like esimme
Which one is the best of these? Do they work in every country? I can't tell if the do some internet-connected magic or if they just program the SIM so that it appears like a bog-standard SIM to the phone.
I use an esim.me card in my phone and once you program the card with the esim.me app, it shows up as a normal physical sim card on the phone with whatever plan the esim was for. I believe you can even move it to another device and it will still show up with the same plan, though I haven't tried that.
The only issue I've had with it is that some esim provider apps refuse to work on a phone that doesn't have esim capabilities, and since the phone sees the card as a normal sim card, the apps don't work. I assume that will be an issue for any of these cards. Not a huge issue though, most esim apps/websites will still let you get the QR code or download the profile even if your phone doesn't natively support esim, and you just enter that into the esim.me app to program the card.
That's great to know, thanks!
I've personally never tried since my phone supports e-sim but people on the internet report good findings with the 5ber card (note that you need the "Ultra" card for iPhone, the other ones are android only).
Thank you!
Tangentially related - I recently got the holy grail of eSIM travel router setup:
- GLiNet Mudi v2: https://store.gl-inet.com/products/mudi-v2-portable-4g-lte-r...
- EIOT Physical eSim https://store.gl-inet.com/products/esim-experience-seamless-...
- 20GB Worldwide Airalo for 365 days ($69): https://www.airalo.com/global-esim/discover-365days-20gb
Buy the airalo esim on my iphone. Download the QR code. Upload it to the mudi router. Activate it there. Voila! I then wireguard back to my home internet in case I need a US on the router. Can also use tailscale, but if my gf wants US internet its helpful.
https://docs.gl-inet.com/router/en/4/tutorials/how_to_set_up...
At least if you’re travelling to Europe there are far cheaper offers with local carriers for about €/£ 5 for 20GB/30days valid across the EU and often UK.
Lycamobile and Simyo usually have good deals though ended up needing to get a physical SIM in Spain as they require showing ID.
I forget if it was with Lyca or a similar brand, but they would deduct 5 cents for each sms before you setup a plan. I was incredibly careful to not do anything and disabled almost everything but apparently iPhone phones home in a way that’s totally hidden from the user and most providers hide and zero the charge but not these rando brands.
Another 5 EUR down to tube because I only had 4,95 for my 5 EUR plan.
Dunno why I put my SIM card in first but I guess I had to for some reason (was on wifi and had access to a computer)
> I was incredibly careful to not do anything and disabled almost everything but apparently iPhone phones home in a way that’s totally hidden from the user and most providers hide and zero the charge but not these rando brands.
It's not "totally hidden". You need to be extra careful to cancel the request to add the new SIM number to FaceTime/iMessage when prompted.
The prompt appears every time the phone is restarted though, and whenever the SIM is switched to.
I have Lyca as my main line but haven’t noticed this before. They do the whole ‘charge £0.01 to validate the card’ thing but that is instantly reversed and a separate transaction.
Overall their customer service is quite possibly the worst I’ve experienced but the network is good and their prices are fair - £10 a month for 25GB I can use in the EU and India.
True. This is what I used to do, but every country does this their SIM setup slightly different:
1. Do I need to show a passport yes/no?
2. Who sells the sim? Do I need to sit in a queue to purchase one? How do I top up?
3. Who is the best telco provider in the region I'm in?
4. etc etc
I'd prefer eSIM all day for that reason. Also, yes I can load up as many local/region eSIMs I want in case I need more, but honestly 20GB is plenty for a full year.
I prefer eSIM too and look forward to them becoming universal. The Lycamobile UK plan I used was an eSIM.
Have you checked out Eskimo esim?
They have coupons every so often on holidays for their worldwide esims. I believe they have one going for Chinese New Years that makes 30GB for $80. The data also has a 2 year expiration that rolls over on any global data purchase.
Downside is their esims (mostly? all?) terminate in Singapore, so higher latency outside of the Asia region.
What's the reason for the mudi device? Why not just use the esim in the iphone and have the iphone in hotspot mode? Just battery life?
A 4G/5G router creates a "real" WiFi network rather than a personal network.
Hotspotting is great for 1 or 2 devices, but devices are reluctant to connect to a personal hotspot automatically (Apple devices, at least). You have to manually select/tap the hotspot every time, which gets to be a pain when you have multiple devices and you're using it as your daily, primary internet connection.
I might also want to leave the house/hotel room/office for whatever reason with my phone but keep other devices connected. In this case the router can either be fixed in place (and plugged in) or travel with me on battery. Flexibility!
At least for me personally when I use my iPhone as a hotspot it tends to be one of two cases:
1) Tethering to my laptop when I need to check something for work in a pinch
2) Letting friends use my data if they don't have any or have a limited plan
In both cases, I think it makes sense to not automatically connect every time my phone is near.
This. Also, mudi can do everything from act as a WAN, input to a LAN and repeat, connect to a wifi and repeat, and use a SIM for its WAN. Phone hotspot only allows you to take the cell connection and repeat it to other devices via Wifi. It can't repeat a wifi or take a hard wire. Plus no advanced router/switch settings, it just says "use my cell connection and give it to anyone connected to me via wifi"
The Mudi sounds like a pretty great device, much more flexible than my Huawei (E6878-870) or the ZTE one that I also tried.
Too bad it's only 4G, though? I bought my 5G Huawei in 2019! Hopefully they'll come out with a 5G version soon.
> A 4G/5G router creates a "real" WiFi network rather than a personal network.
A properly functioning phone hotspot is a "real" WiFi network. The ones created by Android devices, at least, are running `hostapd`, which every Linux-based home router is running behind the scenes.
> devices are reluctant to connect to a personal hotspot automatically (Apple devices, at least).
Solution: don't use Apple devices.
Hotspot tether traffic on iPhone won't be tunneled over a VPN connection. This is what the Mudi router enables over LTE.
Lots of iOS stuff will bypass any configured VPN, including hotspot (but also APNS and other hardware-serial-linked OS stuff).
Nice, thanks for the reccomendations, the Mudi V2 looks great.
Any limitations / bumps in the road, or it "just works"?
Yes! I had to flash it with beta firmware since the eSim Manager disappears using Airalo.
https://dl.gl-inet.com/release/router/testing/e750/4.3.21
I own a Mudi v1, it is Chinese and 'just runs OpenWrt' (with mods). I had to use such device for a previous job (not w/eSIM tho). Battery life was good, but now not so much, and battery isn't user replaceable.
So would you not even need a plan for your phone and could do all voice/text/data through this device? Just keep it it with you at all times and running 24/7?
This is neat. I’ve only heard about ESTK [0] and sysmoEUICC by sysmocom [1].
ESTK supports a couple neat features, like cloud provisioning of profiles [2] (which makes it possible to add eSIM profiles on iPhone, too, not just Android).
[0]: https://estk.me/
[1]: https://shop.sysmocom.de/sysmoEUICC1-eUICC-for-consumer-eSIM...
[2]: https://docs.estk.me/manual/download/cloud-enhance/index.htm...
Note cloud provisioning does require an active data esim profile on the card already
Interesting, do you know why that is the case? Does it use BIP as a communication channel, and the iPhone doesn't route that over Wi-Fi?
correct
I always wondered - can you have no roaming if you use eSIM with wifi calling and an exit node in country where eSIM is issued? So, basically:
- you bought eSIM in Germany
- you are currently in US
- you use tailscale with exit node at your apartment in Germany
- voila, no roaming when you call German mobile lines
Right?
[EDIT FOR ADDITIONAL QUESTION]
If I have troubles receiving SMSs from Germany to German number while in US, would wifi calling icrease the chances of receiving the said SMSs?
I'm implementing a fully libre open-source vowifi/volte client for Android that runs in JVM sandbox, rather than untrustable modem. During my development I went through a protocol detail that I was too lazy to implement: you're supposed to announce which is the last 4g cell you saw even when doing Vowifi. I just hardcoded a value and forgot about it.
And then, I get a user who tells me that their carrier is saying they are roaming, even though they don't. I'm a tad clueless at first, because they are the network, they ought to know (this even happen over VoLTE). I send them an updated implementation that reports the correct cell. And then they receive a "welcome back" SMS.
Anyway, it's possible that your carrier can do abroad vowifi, you just need your vowifi client to lie as to where it is.
In case it's of interest, please see https://osmocom.org/projects/foss-ims-client/wiki/VoWiFi_wit... for an existing way how to talk to VoWiFi carriers from entirely free/libre/open-source software. It's basically a hacked-up version of Asterisk that has IMS client support, plus a modified strongswan IPsec client.
Thanks. In case that's of interest, I have another one, using doubango rather than asterisk: https://github.com/phhusson/doubango/ (and its readme at https://github.com/phhusson/doubango/blob/master/README-phh )
Is there a link to this client? I'd be interested to play around with it.
https://github.com/phhusson/ims
Thanks.
In my experience, wi-fi calling works as if on the home network, regardless of IP location/endpoint. So this would work similarly with an eSIM.
At least Vodafone Germany intentionally blocks (or used to block) foreign IPs for their gateway. I'll always trust them to needlessly ruin perfectly fine technologies.
Fortunately, as far as I remember at least iPhones route VoWiFi traffic over a VPN, if any is connected, so that's one way to still use it abroad.
This is actually less unreasonable than it seems at first.
The Vo WiFi spec only defines handover procedures for networks that implement VoLTE, but VoLTE roaming was historically almost nonexistent, although the situation is improving somewhat.
This means that if you go out of range of your WiFi router, your cell phone has no idea how to request a handover from the network, and the call drops.
By that logic, shouldn't they never have rolled out VoWLAN as long as they still have some non-LTE covered areas in Germany either?
Also, I'd much prefer a call getting dropped to suddenly changing from being included to billed when traveling abroad.
As noted by other commenters, some carriers (I think all of the UK carriers) use IP-based geoblocking to ensure that Wi-Fi Calling only works when using an IP address registered in the UK.
I think most EU carriers use geo blocking for VoWiFi. A lot of non-European carriers advertise VoWiFi as a cheap alternative for roaming.
For EU carriers roaming used to be a big business (Europe is probably the region where most traveling abroad happens, many small countries close together without travel restrictions). The EU carriers don't seem to be able to let go of crazy roaming charges (5€ per minute and more are not uncommon outside of EU).
Nowadays you can just use WhatsApp to make phone calls. It's free.
I have a dual-SIM Pixel 7, the eSIM "slot" has a data-only subscription, the other slot has a pay-as-you-go SIM that I can make phone calls with (I make so few phone calls to actual lines, that having credit that I can top-up every few months is much more cheaper than paying monthly for free minutes). The PAYG SIM offers WiFi calling, and the phone appears to even offer "WiFi"-calling over the data connection, for a much better audio quality.
> If I have troubles receiving SMSs from Germany to German number while in US, would wifi calling icrease the chances of receiving the said SMSs?
I'm not up to date on the state of messaging infrastructure but it used to be the case that some providers would offer non-standard methods for sending messages over their network to intermediary providers. Rather than sending an SMS to a number, a business would ask the intermediary to send a message and the intermediary would use the non-standard method provided by the network provider. The non-standard methods work fine if you're connected to the network directly but if you're overseas that will not be the case and so you can't receive these non-standard messages. Don't quote me on any of that, though.
The non-standard method is to get the SMS to a delivering SMSC (which is the same network component that's used for mobile originated SMS delivery, which is standardized).
Once it's enqueued in an SMSC, there is no more distinction between how it got there, as far as I understand (at least downstream from there; delivery reports to the sender might again be proprietary for non-mobile senders).
> The non-standard methods work fine if you're connected to the network directly but if you're overseas that will not be the case and so you can't receive these non-standard messages.
This is actually not particular to the way in which SMS have been enqueued, but rather to how they're delivered: The sending SMSC has to "dial" pretty deep into both the recipient's home and visited network in the original implementation. This means that they need a commercial agreement and technical integration with both of them.
Usually, problems/inconsistencies occur when they do know how to deliver to the recipient number's home network (because if they can't, they'd probably have rejected the message at SMSC submission time), but are then redirected to a given visited network with which they don't have interconnectivity.
This problem (and some others, including serious privacy concerns) is solved by a newer technology called "SMS home routing". In that model, there's something like a proxy in the recipient's home network that essentially poses as the receiving phone to the sending SMSC, and then uses the home network's resources to do actual delivery. This usually leads to more consistent experiences, and allows things like a "received message log". (Without a home router, the recipient's home network never sees the message content when the recipient is roaming!)
Many providers actually let you use Wi-Fi calling without any VPN, i.e. they don't arbitrarily restrict the set of allowed IPs that can connect to their Internet gateway.
> If I have troubles receiving SMSs from Germany to German number while in US, would wifi calling icrease the chances of receiving the said SMSs?
Probably not, unless your provider supports inbound and outbound SMS via ISM. If you have an iPhone, you can check whether yours does in Settings -> About -> Tap the name of your carrier. (If it lists "Voice and SMS", you might be good; if it's only "voice" or nothing at all, SMS will go over the visited network.)
Are there even roaming costs at all when calling over wifi? Would make sense to me if there weren't, since you're not using the mobile infrastructure you would be paying for.
Then again I could also easily see telcos charging roaming anyway, just because they can.
Calls can freely be handed over between VoLTE and VoWiFi, depending on signal quality, and that often happens without the user's knowledge or explicit consent.
This means that "no roaming costs over WiFi" is a very dicy proposition, as a carrier either needs to restrict handovers (and I don't even know if that's allowed by the spec, not to mention the implications of dropping calls when going out of WiFi Range), cover the costs themselves, or move them onto the unsuspecting user if a handover happens.
There's also a technical hurdle of the telco can't know where you're coming from over the Internet. The terminate your end of the vowifi call and from there they only charge for the connection as though it originated in their network, which is all they know for sure (that is their SIM and your account that's authenticated from somewhere in the world)
Well, I know at least one provider that looks at your IP's country registration and will block you if they believe it's not domestic: Vodafone Germany. I wouldn't wish their service upon my worst enemies.
Sounds terrible. So yeah, I guess they can make an educated guess, and initiate a demoralizing cat and mouse game with their customers.
Alternatively, use a global eSIM purely for data access, then use your phone as a SIP client (or use something like Google Voice) for PSTN access, eschewing the mobile network entirely.
Yes, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42768735
Was "the SIM's packaging" not just an original credit-card sized SIM? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_card#Full-size_SIM, with punch-outs for newer formats?
i think it meant the rims for the punch outs were the best for keeping a nano sim in the reader stable (which presumably took one of the larger formats).
If you use the JMP eSIM Adapter you can use a fully open source app, or even your own build of the app or whatever you like.
You can use OpenEUICC with 9esim. They just rebrand it and publish it as their own thing. https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/OpenEUICC
To the dead comment: No, OpenEUICC does not need a rooted phone. Mine is not rooted and it works.
Wrong. OpenEUICC requires a rooted phone or a custom ROM, while EasyEUICC can be installed anywhere. This is literally what the (previously-)dead comment says. The second part is a copy-paste from the project's README.
Correct, I'm sorry. I meant the app, not the module. You don't need the module, just the app. I was confused by the repo name it seems. The app is indeed called EasyEUICC
They do not "just" rebrand it.
OpenEUICC needs a rooted phone, while the provider-branded packages like EasyEUICC can run in user space (and thus needs to be signed with the corresponding hash).
-----8<-----
There are two variants of this project:
OpenEUICC: The full-fledged privileged variant. Due to its privilege requirement, OpenEUICC must be placed inside /system/priv-app and be signed with the platform certificate.
The preferred way to including OpenEUICC in a system image is to build it along with AOSP.
Note: When privileged, OpenEUICC supports any eUICC chip that implements the SGP.22 standard, internal or external. However, there is no guarantee that external (removable) eSIMs actually follow the standard. Please DO NOT submit bug reports for non-functioning removable eSIMs. They are NOT officially supported unless they also support / are supported by EasyEUICC, the unprivileged variant.
EasyEUICC: Unprivileged version that can run as a user app. This version supports two modes of operation: Inserted, removable eSIMs: Due to obvious security requirements, EasyEUICC is only able to access eSIM chips whose ARF/ARA contains the hash of EasyEUICC's signing certificate.
USB CCID Card Readers: Only T=0 readers that use the standard USB CCID protocol are supported. In this mode, EasyEUICC can access any eSIM chip loaded in the card reader regardless of their ARF/ARA, as long as they implement the SGP.22 standard.
Prebuilt release-mode EasyEUICC apks can be downloaded here For removable eSIM chip vendors: to have your chip supported by official builds of EasyEUICC when inserted, include the ARA-M hash 2A2FA878BC7C3354C2CF82935A5945A3EDAE4AFA
Thank you! I came to the comments to find the most open version of this. Unfortunately, the JMP eSIM's order form is broken so I cannot purchase their device (it never asks for city/state and then the order form errors out with "City or state/province not specified")
It seems that bringing up the city/state box after you enter zip code is being slow right now. if you wait a bit do they show up for you after entering zip code?
You're right! It took 7 minutes according to chrome dev tools but the state and city did eventually show up. Then my credit card's fraud protection declined the order so I had to go back and watch the spinner spin for another 5.2 minutes but I eventually was able to purchase one.
sorry for the trouble. glad you got it to work.
I wonder if there's a reversed solution: using physical SIM card on devices that have only eSIMs. The use case: recent fewer versions of iPhone support only eSIMs, yet we will need a physical sim when traveling in China (yes yes, one could use roaming. It's just that with a China phone number, one can do more).
It apparently can be done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twFC0A_m0KI
Supposedly the people doing this at scale (for grey imports?) even de-solder the eSIM module and resell it, but I have my doubts about that part of the story.
Sure you can do it if there’s a module to desolder, but many phones will just use TrustZone/Secure Enclave and you’re not desoldering that…
Are there any TrustZone based eSIM implementations yet? I've heard about plans for a couple of times but haven't been following that closely.
I'm not sure if iPhones still have a physical module; it would make a lot of sense for Apple to combine the eSIM implementation with the payments secure element (I think they hold some patents to that extent), but I'm not sure if they already do that.
Why do you need a physical sim in China? Are there just no esim providers? Or is it something deeper?
It’s to connect phone numbers to identities. Getting a physical sim in China involves going in person to a store where they keep your passport and a mugshot (you hold a paper with your number on it) in a database.
There’s no free WiFi without requiring a phone number. It allows the government to connect internet users to real identities.
Apparently there aren't any eSIMs in China that include a phone number. I'm not sure why.
I think this is why Apple releases the latest iPhones with physical SIM trays in China while the latest iPhones in North America are eSIM only
>while the latest iPhones in North America are eSIM only
It's US that's esim only. Canada and Mexico still has physical sim + esim option if you're willing to drive across the border.
https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/
https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/compare/
https://www.apple.com/mx/iphone/compare/
A big reason is that an eSIM is virtual, which means anyone can easily get an eSIM that allows them to punch through the great firewall -- a defeat that the Chinese government would never allow to happen
I only know eSIM providers for data
But normally you wouldn't want to use a local SIM in China because of the great firewall. I usually buy local SIMs but China is an exception. I can't live without Wikipedia.
Most "travel esims" are data-only, but there are definitely domestic carriers/MVNOs that provide voice + text, and provide esims.
I like the initiative and I’m not against experimenting, it’s fun.
But why would you ever want an eSIM in a SIM device, I’d assume it’s more often the other way around
You may find yourself in that situation if you have a device that only supports SIMs, and you can't use any of the cheap travel esim providers with it. For travel, you would replace your local SIM with the 9eSIM, and be able to switch providers depending on destination. The difference can be huge in some countries, where a local provider's travel plan can be 30 to 50 USD, while a equivalent on an ESIM provider is just $4.
I live in such a country and have parents with older phones who can't use esims, so the value is obvious to me. :)
In which countries are eSIMs cheaper? I have never encountered this in Africa or in Asia. I was just in Vietnam, a local SIM was probably 50% cheaper than anything I could find on esimdb.
Currently I'm in Georgia, unlimited internet for a week is 9 GEL, or around 3ish USD per week. The cheapest on esdimdb is 19 USD for unlimited internet for a week.
What we usually do when we travel is buy the cheapest eSIM, usually on some introductory offer to get like 1GB for 1 USD (so we can order taxis, maps etc), then go to a local provider and get a local SIM.
One place where an eSIM was a good choice was China. I don't quite understand how it works, but it seems if you use an eSIM in China you get around the great firewall without needing a VPN.
I wish eSIMs were cheaper, so I wouldn't have to deal with the headache of doing that. When going to local providers, sometimes they offer an eSIM option, but there is usually no price difference.
> I don't quite understand how it works, but it seems if you use an eSIM in China you get around the great firewall without needing a VPN.
That's just the default for most mobile data services, eSIM or physical SIM. Your home network provides Internet connectivity. "Local breakout" (where you get an IP of the visited network) has never really taken off for various reasons, one being that people actually like being able to access everything they also can at home.
I also strongly suspect that this is why iPhones in China don't have any eSIM capability.
I don't know if eSIMs are more expensive or less than a local SIM, but they are much more convenient for me when I travel. I can have working internet as soon as I step off the plane, which is great for finding transportation and not having to deal with kiosks that won't speak any language I know and might be closed. I don't have to hand over my passport to get a SIM, and in China they get around the firewall. The cost of an eSIM vs the cost of travel is too small to notice but the convenience is always noticed.
you can buy travel esim packages like arialo, that gives you easy data in a lot of countris.
Currently traveling, and the savings are real. Although in this case it’s the opposite: travel eSIMs rates are about $80 for data for 30 days, whereas a cheap local prepaid SIM card is $8-16 (but with no eSIM option)
I've encountered this in Cape Verde and ended buying a local SIM off the street for a fraction of the price.
In several countries, I've seen tourist SIMs offered by local operators in either eSIM or physical SIM for the same price.
Out of curiosity: where are you traveling with data that expensive?
The service is called Holafly, it was advertised on the plane, and my travel mate bought it without hesitating (because of the convenience of an eSIM, even though they didn’t get a local number)
>it was advertised on the plane
That's basically guaranteed to be overpriced. Anything prominently advertised means you're going to be paying for the advertising budget.
Also, it's "unlimited data", which probably makes it more expensive than it needs to be due to adverse selection. For instance it charges $50 for 15 days in europe, but on esimdb[1] you can easily find esims for just over $1/gb. It might still be worth it if you're using absurd amounts of data, but citing it as an example of esims being very expensive doesn't really make sense.
https://esimdb.com/region/europe
I don't know about europe but 40 to 80usd for 15GB for 30 days in Mexico is completely crazy when you can get a physical telcel sim card with 25GB and unlimited data for whatsapp and all major social medias, which means you can easily go for the smaller 10GB (15usd) or 7GB (10usd) choice if the most you will transfer is on social medias and whatsapp.
https://esimdb.com/mexico
I found my google maps app for navigation and image translation via google lens/translator app ate up a ton of my data. I had to turn off off a setting or two to reduce the maps data.
I meant the physical destination, not the service :D
I have not yet traveled to a place that doesn't have cheap prepaid SIM on the Airport, or some Internet cafes.
Cheap is very subjective. There is always a way cheaper Esim option, especially if you have high usage.
Not the common Esim provider spamming all of Google. But you often find local Esim resellers for local networks.
Writing this from my Caravan WiFi, with a small streaming computer, 2 mobiles and a laptop using about 250 GB a month :)
In my experience, getting an eSIM is usually cheaper than the airport SIM card plans, but often there are cheaper plans available when you get to the city. In any case, having both options is nice!
>getting an eSIM is usually cheaper than the airport SIM card plans, but often there are cheaper plans available when you get to the city
I find that for light data users (ie. < 5GB), esims are always almost cheaper than local sims, except for maybe in developing countries.
I think it depends on how you define “developing countries”!
I’m currently in Thailand and I got 6 GB for about $2 total (50 baht for the SIM with 3 GB for 3 days, another 20 baht top up for another 3 GB / 3 days). I did use eSIM for about a month before that though (I just wanted a local number to order some stuff from Lazada).
Another example (also from Southeast Asia, FWIW): Malaysian SIMs are also cheaper, though topping them up is painful so I’d personally stick with an eSIM there.
Those are all developing countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IMF_advanced_economies_an...
What is the best way to find a cheap eSIM? Do you wait until you arrive in the country? Or can you ship somewhere before arriving?
I expected to use an eSIM when I went abroad for a month last year. It turned out the providers offering "travel eSIM" are 2 to 4 times more expensive compared to buying a prepaid physical sim at the counter valid for 30 days.
Quick note that "the counter" may not exist or be hard/time consuming to track down and then there may be language barriers and also identity proof requirements that you can't meet. So service that's available and working as soon as your boots hit the ground do have some value.
I sure hope you travel with a passport.
Aren't there this kind of shops in any major airport?
One announce with eSIM is that you can’t move them freely, despite being advertised as equivalent. Depending on the provider it can get quite complicated (physical visit in store, fees) to move to another device.
Could one make an all-software sim card emulator which would enable this?
Or does the esim spec have some kind of DRM to require you to use physical hardware with an embedded yet secret-to-you key?
>Or does the esim spec have some kind of DRM to require you to use physical hardware with an embedded yet secret-to-you key?
Yes. Basically there's an accreditation process by the GSMA, and if your esim doesn't have a certificate chain leading back to GSMA, you won't be able to get your esim provisioned.
https://media.ccc.de/v/camp2023-57190-demystifying_esim_tech...
There is SoftSIM, but I think it’s geared towards IOT applications: https://onomondo.com/product/softsim/
Sorry, move them from what to what? Surely an eSIM isn't locked to the first phone I use it on?
It is.
The QR codes that provision the eSIM are single-use.
Most "real" carriers will of course let you migrate your eSIMs, with varying degrees of pain involved (my Japanese eSIM migrated automatically from iPhone to iPhone; the German one involved making a phone call); but ~all "travel plans" eSIMS will be single-use only.
The QR codes aren't really single-use, my carrier reuses the QR code and you can move devices by removing the eSIM from one and re-importing the QR code on the newer. (The QR code is invalid so long as the eSIM is provisioned on a device, not necessarily powered on)
Oof, that's not great...
Chinese iPhone has no eSIM support (they have dual SIM instead), IoT stuff like alarms tend to use SIM slots, LTE/5G routers tend to use SIM, etc.
Until eSIM provisioning for embedded devices is sorted out and popularized there will be plenty of reasons to adapt to a regular SIM.
I got a second hand mobile router with SIM support, but very good hardware for 50$. I ordered a Esim adapter SIM for $20 and just switch to the cheapest network wherever I am.
Easily saved $300 to a comparable device with Esim support.
I can't speak to anyone else, but I have a phone about a year too old for e-sims to have been commonplace, but I still need to travel, and services like airalo (global sims to go) are basically e-sim only -- so my secondary sim slot is a reprogrammable eSIM.
Let’s say you land in a new country that your primary provider won’t roam to for free or at all, there’s no need to visit the airport shop that sells SIM cards with limited options and try to buy and set up something which is often in a different language.
You can buy your eSIM service at the best possible price ahead of time online and have it ready to go when you land, and you don’t have to upgrade your not-that-old phone to do so.
quote from TFA "Since I want to use the SIM with the integrated WWAN modem of a laptop running Linux, I was keen to see if I could get this all to work using Linux and Free software."
I clicked this as I don't think there's a phone meeting my prefrences (repairable, runs mostly mainline linuix) that has esim. There all regular sim. So something like this could expand options carrier wise.
Well, one nice thing is that a device like this allows you to use the services that are trying to lock you with an eSIM in the same way that you use a normal consumer friendly SIM.
Because you can buy cheap short term data plans in most countries online. Getting a physical prepaid SIM is often a pain, especially in places like the US.
Simply there are more eSIM providers than traditional SIM ones, so there's more competition and lower prices. That alone is enough.
Yep, it isn't as if there aren't cheap pre-paid throway SIM available as well.
Almost the entirety of the enthusiasm for this post is based on people running crippled OSes (iOS, mainly) which won't let you tunnel 100% of traffic over a VPN.
I wish I knew if this would have helped me on a recent trip out of the U.S. In preparation, I upgraded my older, low-end smartphone to one with a more recent version of Android, NFC (for tap-to-pay), a headphone jack, and support for two physical SIMs.
So when I arrived at my destination, I was able to purchase a 30-day SIM for a local phone number and data, but my primary SIM was useless outside of the U.S. so no access to my primary phone number (I ended up using WhatsApp a lot). My carrier (Boost Mobile) advertised an add-on for "Global Roaming", but despite non-trivial time spent reading and talking to them on the phone, I got merely a vague impression that only an eSIM would have allowed me to continue to use my primary number out of the country. Would this solution have worked for me?
Meanwhile, I still have the (now deactivated) second SIM in my phone, hope that is not a security risk of some kind.
I really don't see the connection between an eSIM and your SIM not working abroad here.
All an eSIM does is replace a physical one with a "digital" one. You'd still be using your carrier in these places. For your sim to work, your carrier would need to have agreements in place with providers in the country you're in. And then they'd charge you an extortionate amount of money to making any calls or use any data.
He's probably talking about how on iPhones[1] and some Androids[2], you can do something called "wifi calling using cellular data" or "backup calling", which basically enables you to roam for "free" on your one SIM by using wifi-calling over the data connection of the second SIM. It only triggers if the first SIM doesn't have any reception, but there's workarounds for that, but in any case it's not as simple as installing an eSIM and getting free roaming.
[1] https://cdsassets.apple.com/live/7WUAS350/images/ios/ios-18-...
[2] https://lemmy.world/post/58708
Another factor for international travel is whether you phone has the right bands to get signal. My carrier claims to have international roaming, but I look up what bands my model phone has and what the country I'm going to uses and I pretty much would not get signal anyway.
Are you sure? There's a pretty good overlap these days in globally supported bands on at least a baseline level.
You might not be able to use a provider's extended/rural or dense urban canyon filler cells, but I haven't yet been to a place where I didn't get any roaming connectivity at all.
In some countries (the US included), providers restrict the ability of devices not capable of e.g. VoIP to connect on certain bands (as there is no circuit switched fallback available there, and there's an FCC mandate that calls, in particular 911 calls, have to work wherever data works), but that's usually not applied to inbound roaming guests.
> Are you sure? There's a pretty good overlap these days in globally supported bands on at least a baseline level.
Most Chinese imported phones have really poor band support in the US. Lucky to get band 2 and band 5 at best.
> In some countries (the US included), providers restrict the ability of devices not capable of e.g. VoIP to connect on certain bands (as there is no circuit switched fallback available there, and there's an FCC mandate that calls, in particular 911 calls, have to work wherever data works), but that's usually not applied to inbound roaming guests.
US all circuit switched data is basically gone except for a few rural carriers and maybe a few pockets of 2G left on T-Mobile (was shut down on my local towers in past few weeks). Unsure of the 911 IMS carrier profile support on models not intended for US market.
Recently I tried to reinstall an eSIM on my Android phone while overseas but was told by my carrier that the eSIM can only be activated while connected to antennas located in the carrier's country, i.e. it can't be activated overseas, despite my plan supporting call roaming and both countries being in the EU.
I don't know whether this is carrier-specific or the same for all carriers.
This worked for me, French carrier "Free", and install new eSIM while in Spain.
But now I have doubts, especially outside the EU: if it doesn't work, that would loose one of the advantages that I'd sort of expected eSIM to have: if your phone gets lost / stolen while abroad, you could just get a new eSIM from your carrier immediately, and set it up on your replacement phone.
In my case, my bank uses mandatory SMS 2FA for setting up their app on a new phone, thus making it impossible to make purchases with my card without having the being able to set up the app.
So I'd be back to the oldschool method of having a fried back at home set up the new eSIM, receive the 2FA code...
I think almost all carriers require this. I've seen mentions that the Google Fi eSIM requires US towers to activate, but can be moved / reinstalled later without them (didn't test it though).
Just an end user, so don't quote me on this, but I think that requirement was largely a legacy Sprint requirement.
I've purchased newer Pixel devices from my local shop and activated Google Fi just fine overseas. (with the caveat that I might not have all of T-Mobile's bands if I'm back in the US).
Is there any effort towards enabling increased privacy against tracking by "rotating" eSIMs amongst a group of individuals? The article mentions capacity for 50 profiles, what would be the legal and/or implementation effects of such a Local-Profile-Agent?
You can't transfer eSIMs between devices. iPhones support "transfers" but in reality it involves the carrier reissuing it. You'd have to transfer the physical device, which is going to be a pain.
What prevents you from doing that? Is an activated eSIM linked to the device's MAC address, making it impossible to use with a different device?
If that is the case, what would happen if we transferred the MAC address along with the eSIM? (assuming you have a jailbroken/rooted phone)
>Is an activated eSIM linked to the device's MAC address, making it impossible to use with a different device?
After an esim is "activated" it's bound to the esim chip. By design, you can't copy it onto another esim chip or device. If you want to transfer devices, you need to ask your carrier to issue you another esim.
What if you use a solution like the one described in the article, and physically swap the SIM card to another device?
That should work, as "physical eSIMs" are usually not bound to the device they're in in any way. Your provider might restrict the set of allowable IMEIs conencting per SIM (profile), though.
That's not quite true: Some eSIM profiles can be reinstalled, sometimes only on the same device, sometimes only on a limited number of devices or a limited number of times, but sometimes they're really as versatile as the physical SIMs they're replacing.
It's ultimately up to the provider which model they choose, but I really like the ones that allow both reuse of an existing profile and make it easy and free to provision a new one if required (e.g. due to a lost or broken device).
AFAIK Only the eSIM issuer can do this. I did it once, it involved the eSIM issuer support emailing me a new QR code.
Does anyone have any resources which explain why eSIMs tunnel your network traffic to the provider? My mental model for old fashioned physical SIMs is that they would roam on the network you're visiting. ie, a Chinese physical SIM on a US network would show up from the US network, and would otherwise be normal except that the phone and network traffic would be very expensive. My understanding of eSIMs is that they act more like a VPN; your network (and phone?) traffic is tunneled back to the home network.
It's not really anything to do with eSIM. If you used a physical SIM from the same carrier with the same settings, you'd have the same experience.
When connecting via a cellular data network, all data will be routed via your carrier's Access Point Name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Point_Name).
Most carriers only have servers in their home region capable of handling the traffic. It is possible to have regional servers for this, but most carriers don't bother with the expense. Roaming data is usually expensive or restricted in usage - so there's traditionally been very little demand for higher speed connectivity.
Travel eSIMs are usually just a regular SIM with a very limited plan from a carrier that has favourable roaming deals.
Thanks for this explanation -- I guess I really had things wrong.
> My mental model for old fashioned physical SIMs is that they would roam on the network you're visiting.
No, that's never really been the case. It's technically possible (and called "local breakout"), but for various reasons I also don't fully understand, it's usually not done that way.
One is legal liability for user actions; another is accessibility of services at home, such as banking apps, that are probably more comfortable with a familiar IP.
I think this is a peculiarity of the short-term travel eSIM providers (like Airalo). If I recall correctly, when I went to Bermuda, the Airalo eSIM would route the traffic through Isle of Man. They have some of the most odd agreements with random telecoms to get coverage and cheap rates.
Partly I think it's skirting around local regulations (e.g. if a country required SIMs to be registered with the owner's information, but you provision the SIM from a nearby country's telco and route traffic through there maybe you can get around it).
But as far as I understand this has nothing to do with eSIMs and a lot to do with Airalo trying to cover every corner of the world for cheap.
Routing data back to the home network is how it can get counted and charged for.
The host roaming network is just selling in bulk, but does not own the customer.
That's not ordered by the SIM but by the packet-core network policies set by both parties.
Hmm that's kinda nice. I don't like eSIMs because the provider often imposes arbitrary constraints. Either needing their data-stealing app, only allowing so many changes per month, only allowing 'certified' handsets, having 2FA bullshit etc.
I just want to swap my number into different phones like I can with a physical card, without anyone else's involvement or approval.
If I could just grab an esim and download it onto a physical card that would be great.
What country is this, if you mind sharing? I've never encountered any of these problems. I've received almost all my eSIMs as a QR code, and the ones that did offer app-based installation (which is convenient if it works, but ultimately not more than that) have a QR code for fallback.
> only allowing so many changes per month
That I have actually encountered. I've seen one (fortunately only when traveling) that actually charges a "SIM fee" for each new eSIM profile installed, and they don't allow reinstalls of my initial one...
Charging for a new eSIM is dubious even if a profile is reinstallable, but it's less of an issue for me, as I'd only have to do that if I lose a phone, or it fails to a point where I can no longer remove the installed eSIMs so that I can redownload them on another one.
This was in Holland, one of the MVNOs. They had a crappy app and it would generate a different QR code every time (so they were not reusable).
And a lot of operators have restrictions on phones. Imported phones are often blocked (and also not given access to VoLTE).
For me it is a big deal if it charges "sim fees". I do swap my sims very regularly. For testing, or to put one in my tablet when I travel. I just want to be fully free to do as I please.
But luckily I only use prepay these days and none of the carriers here in Europe that do prepay offer eSIM anyway.
> none of the carriers here in Europe that do prepay offer eSIM anyway.
Not true, e.g. in Portugal: https://www.nos.pt/movel/esim (though you need to go to a store to pick-up the QR code, I think to avoid people from other countries using it?), https://www.meo.pt/servicos/movel/tarifarios-telemovel/e-sim same thing
Most eSIMs are not reusable; that's just standard, not a weird restriction.
Ok but then they just aren't usable like a normal SIM. And not a suitable replacement.
I’ve used many that are reusable, so I’ll continue considering it a common but weird restriction.
Which operators? From your other comments I would think Vodafone (CallYa?) Germany - any others?
(I haven’t seen any other that ships reusable QR codes yet.)
Happens with Thai eSIM as well.
They have great roaming deals so I like having its eSIM always installed, but if I change iPhone I have to visit a store Thailand. Fantastic. I ended up switching it for a physical SIM card.
If the eSIM is registered, you can also reissue a Thai eSIM online.
Dtac? Maybe he was wrong, but the operator said I couldn't.
> Charging for a new eSIM is dubious
The prices charged are often too high but depending on the setup the provider is using they might actually pay a vendor a fee every time an eSIM profile is generated.
>Either needing their data-stealing app
that's only needed on non-rooted Android, due to security restrictions imposed by android. OP even mentions using an open source tool (lpac) with his esim adapter.
Like a SIM card, you mean?
I don't really like the move to eSIMs, or rather the removal of physical SIM card (slots.) A physical thing is a lot easier to reason about, and you can swap them in seconds.
I've never heard of any of these things (~2k mobile devices at work). I've had a hand in writing some policies for our company for our mobile devices and with Verizon, ATT, and T-Mobile, 0 issues with esims.
I have a 5ber.esim that appears to be exactly that.
Thanks! I'll have a look at that.
Edit: Looks great but it's US only. But I think the one in the article spoke about a similar solution.
I am in Europe myself
Oh did you order it somewhere? I only saw US options on their site.
Previously, https://www.androidauthority.com/esim-adapter-android-phone-... said "While there are other eSIM adapters, the JMP adapter is the only one that doesn’t use a proprietary, closed source app." Is that still true, or is this one now a second FOSS option?
I have not been able to find the source for the 9esim app, but it is derived from the code for the JMP app so they are pretty similar I think.
I would love to have a simple device out of the box that can receive sms and send them via api to a Webserver.
Just with my own SIM card, or even multiple SIM cards.
I m working on a diy solution with cheap sim800c usb modems but it’s just not that good.
This seems like it might be useful for web scraping. Ive been having a munch easier time scraping/ not having to buy proxies since moving to strictly 5G modems. Something like this might help get past the two sim limit on both devices.
You can use a USB hub (example with 20 ports: https://www.sipolar.com/product/a-805p-20-ports-usb-2-0-hub/) and attach multiple USB dongles to it. This blog post describes a setup for web scraping: https://scrapingfish.com/blog/byo-mobile-proxy-for-web-scrap...
I'm interested in solving the opposite problem: using physical SIMs with devices that only have eSIM. This is extremely important when going to mainland China as physical SIMs are required there.
Using an eSIM data on a physical sim is relatively straightforward; getting the keys from a physical SIM to use as an eSIM is relatively non-trivial, as "the card is designed to never divulge this key to the outside world".
I wonder if there's a way to use a dongle (or a small wireless Bluetooth device or something) to connect a physical SIM to a phone that doesn't have a physical SIM slot.
For internet access - sure. For messages - sort-of. For calls - troublesome.
As far as I know, smartphones don't have a protocol for accessing a remote cellular network connection in the same way as if it was internal, so the only viable way is to have a hotspot device that shares the connection over wi-fi.
It sounds like a regular SIM is more secure than an eSIM. Are there any implications to the user?
There doesn't seem to be that much extra attack surface: https://security.stackexchange.com/a/271953
With an eSIM activation, the only possibility is that someone else e.g. reads the QR code from your screen and activates the eSIM on their device; but you'll notice that since eSIM activation will fail on your end, and will likely request a new one. But that does provide some window for a targeted attack.
With a physical SIM, there's a much easier attack available, in form of extracting the SIM itself from your phone. It isn't a remote attack, but it might even take you longer to notice.
Arguably, an operator's support of remote eSIM activation (whether you use it or not) is the biggest attack vector, since it allows an attacker to impersonate you and request a new eSIM.
I'm glad that there is finally some competition for esim.me and its scammy business practices
Is there no chinese knock-off SIM yet that let you change IDs and efficiently backup eSIM keys? That one would be actually a cool product.
I wish I could do it the other way around. I got a SIMcard I really want to use but the provider does not do eSIM.
Is this a knockoff of https://esim.me/ ?
Yes. But esim.me high prices, clunky kyc and other issues left plenty of room for competitors.
Does this reader allow cloning an existing SIM into this bought SIM, or what does it do if not that?
Hoping for the opposite option. Using physical sims for devices that only support esim?
Curious on what you think the advantage there is ? If you lose your phone , you don't lose your number if it's an eSIM
I would love to use the GoogleFi data only SIM on my iPad. But the Fi doesn't provide data only eSIM, and my iPad cannot have physical SIM slots.
Chinese carriers don’t support eSIM. Not an advantage. A necessity unfortunately.
Need the other way around, an eSIM emulator for a physical SIM card.
Transitioning to eSim-only could enslave us even further, as if Windows 11 secure boot shenanigans were not enough. Please raise this with your favorite digital freedom advocate. Let's be proactive on this one.
Yeah, I really hate not having to physically juggle small smartcards whenever I want to use another network/provider (my phone has several eSIM profiles installed right now), being able to choose from dozens of providers competing on price and functionality, and not having to stand in line at the SIM store first thing after a long-haul flight too.
eSIMs could have been an anti-consumer nightmare, but fortunately they were really done exactly right. I really sometimes find it hard to believe how lucky we got on that one; they could have easily been a carrier lock-in mechanism like ESN/MEID based provisioning was.
> Let's be proactive on this one.
Even if you had a point, you're years too late. iPhones are sold without a SIM slot in some countries already (and I love it).
You can't just take "important" esim out of your phone when travelling. If you lose your device or if it's stolen recovering eSIM from many countries is PITA.
I can delete mine and then reinstall it on any device from the QR code if required. Not all providers allow that, unfortunately, but I wouldn’t use one that doesn’t allow instantly receiving a new QR code in some way.
> eSIMs _could_ have been an anti-consumer nightmare
Really? Because I can swap a SIM card between phones in 30 seconds whereas swapping eSIM lies between "hoping it works" and "not possible", passing by "you'll need a document" or "visit the store, if it's anywhere in your city/country"
I can swap my eSIM between phones faster than I can remove my phone case.
There's a difference between "my specific thing works" and "all such things work". Not all eSIMs are transferable.
Yes, but that's a problem of bad network operators, not the eSIM standard.
Operators could also release physical SIMs that get tied to a given phone's IMEI after first insertion if they really wanted to.
Yes, but that's a problem of bad people, not guns.
Either way, the end result is that I have to identify myself at a store to move some eSIMs and many are simply not transferable (particularly from Airalo)
Airalo SIMs wouldn't even exist without eSIM, so arguably that's still a consumer win, not a loss, even though I obviously also wish they were transferable.
> Transitioning to eSim-only could enslave us even further, as if Windows 11 secure boot shenanigans were not enough
How are eSIMs "enslaving" people? Or for that matter, Windows 11 secure boot? There's plenty to complain about in Windows 11 from a privacy perspective, but secure boot is your problem?
Even media created with MS's own USB imager didn't work with my DIY build. May be related to Asus' UEFI but there's no proper diagnostic facility to know. I said screw it, and used Rufus to bypass any MS nonsense at the same time.
And how? The same way SIM locks did. EU made them illegal not without reason.
> And how? The same way SIM locks did. EU made them illegal not without reason.
SIM locks were for operators to lock phones they sell you only to their network. You can install any eSIM, including from random MVNOs all around the world.
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