I once dropped in on an abandoned tropospheric scatter site I saw hidden in the trees while fishing in the Inside Passage of Alaska. Massive RF dishes the size of buildings.
A couple things really stuck out for me. First, it looked like everyone that worked there had literally left for lunch one day and never came back. No orderly wind-down, just instantly abandoned, everything left behind. Second, they had these massive brass waveguides connecting the antennas to rooms of primitive mainframes. I found it interesting that no one had ever salvaged, legally or illegally, the considerable scrap metal value contained in those installations. These buildings have been abandoned since before I was born and there was literally tons of high-value scrap just sitting there.
These places have a strange vibe, they feel ancient. No one really messes with these abandoned places, they are treated like an archaic relic or monument even though they aren’t that old. It is sort of a surreal feeling of coming across the ruins of some dead civilization like some kind of sci-fi trope.
Alaska is weird. Due to transportation costs entire industries that would exist anywhere else don't exist there, like metal recycling, which is why the brass hasn't been looted.
They could really build geodesic domes in those days. Most of the abandoned domes are intact, after half a century, unmaintained, in an Arctic climate. They're aluminum frames with Fiberglas panels.
Geodesic domes were taken over by the "natural materials" people in the 1960s and 1970s. This doesn't work. Geodesic domes need standard manufactured components built to tight tolerances. Then they just bolt together. Domes built with wood and shingles do not work very well.[1]
Google proposed to build a big geodesic dome for their HQ in Mountain View. It probably would have been better than what they did build, which looks like some kind of sports arena.
Bolting together at a variety of odd angles is a terrible thing to waterproof, and most domes do have water infiltration problems. You can just spray foam the whole thing, building a dome of polyurethane, but if you're going to do that you're getting very far from the ideals of that movement. Wood and shingles are also not isotropic materials structurally or in terms of how they deal with moisture.
I think the most impressive part about these sites was the way they networked them together with UHF/Microwave Troposcatter links, which basically just scream RF into the sky and then listen for the small amount of energy that's reflected off the troposphere on the other end. (It's a little more complex than that)
This method was the back-bone of long distance Cold War communications links (As well as HF using ionospheric propagation) until Satellites started becoming more commonplace in the 70's
That sounds like stuff of science fiction, can't believe it works. The best part is that it works long distance without having to have satellites in the sky... and is probably un-jammable?
Thanks for sharing this, so cool to learn about it!
There was a huge dish pointing straight up. A friend and I walked around on the dish. There was a very small compartment more or less where the elevation axis was. The slightly creepy feeling I might get stuck in it kept me from going in but my friend did.
Another large structure was likely a transmitter. A large surface with a grid of smaller antennas covering one side.
Most cool to me though were the rooms with 6 foot high panels with all manner of analog meters, switches, lights.... Nothing worked of course, most everything was smashed. I wish now that I had brought some tools and removed as many of the components as I could.
My overall impression was a kind of wonderment that so much money and effort would be expended by the U.S. government to watch for Soviet aircraft/missiles. So much equipment built, foundations poured, cinder blocks stacked...
And then I suppose sophisticated satellites made it all obsolete.
Just so you know, that site was finally really covered over the past 5 years or so (haven't lived over there in a bit). Truckloads of gravel. I wish they would have made it a museum and taken care of it instead of just letting it rot!
Great site. The DYE-2 and DYE-3 stations built on the glacier that they just abandoned remind me of something you'd see in a post apocalyptic movie or game.
In-laws are from that immediate area. I've been inside the PAR which is still operational, and done some outside the fence viewing of the Nekoma site before it was decommissioned.
I once dropped in on an abandoned tropospheric scatter site I saw hidden in the trees while fishing in the Inside Passage of Alaska. Massive RF dishes the size of buildings.
A couple things really stuck out for me. First, it looked like everyone that worked there had literally left for lunch one day and never came back. No orderly wind-down, just instantly abandoned, everything left behind. Second, they had these massive brass waveguides connecting the antennas to rooms of primitive mainframes. I found it interesting that no one had ever salvaged, legally or illegally, the considerable scrap metal value contained in those installations. These buildings have been abandoned since before I was born and there was literally tons of high-value scrap just sitting there.
These places have a strange vibe, they feel ancient. No one really messes with these abandoned places, they are treated like an archaic relic or monument even though they aren’t that old. It is sort of a surreal feeling of coming across the ruins of some dead civilization like some kind of sci-fi trope.
Really damn cool though.
Alaska is weird. Due to transportation costs entire industries that would exist anywhere else don't exist there, like metal recycling, which is why the brass hasn't been looted.
They could really build geodesic domes in those days. Most of the abandoned domes are intact, after half a century, unmaintained, in an Arctic climate. They're aluminum frames with Fiberglas panels.
Geodesic domes were taken over by the "natural materials" people in the 1960s and 1970s. This doesn't work. Geodesic domes need standard manufactured components built to tight tolerances. Then they just bolt together. Domes built with wood and shingles do not work very well.[1]
Google proposed to build a big geodesic dome for their HQ in Mountain View. It probably would have been better than what they did build, which looks like some kind of sports arena.
[1] https://www.domerama.com/dome-basics/domebook-1-2/
Bolting together at a variety of odd angles is a terrible thing to waterproof, and most domes do have water infiltration problems. You can just spray foam the whole thing, building a dome of polyurethane, but if you're going to do that you're getting very far from the ideals of that movement. Wood and shingles are also not isotropic materials structurally or in terms of how they deal with moisture.
Buckminster Fuller's Oldest Surviving Dome Is At The Center Of A Big Development Dispute (with audio)
https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/03/07/buckminster-fuller-geod...
I think the most impressive part about these sites was the way they networked them together with UHF/Microwave Troposcatter links, which basically just scream RF into the sky and then listen for the small amount of energy that's reflected off the troposphere on the other end. (It's a little more complex than that)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_scatter
This method was the back-bone of long distance Cold War communications links (As well as HF using ionospheric propagation) until Satellites started becoming more commonplace in the 70's
meteor scatter communications were even more crazy and impressive (still in use actually)
Yup. SNOtel uses meteor bounce. They've talked about trying to switch to satellite or cellular, but it just doesn't make sense for their use case
BNSF railroad also has an extensive meteor scatter radio system across north america that is similar to SNOtel.
That sounds like stuff of science fiction, can't believe it works. The best part is that it works long distance without having to have satellites in the sky... and is probably un-jammable?
Thanks for sharing this, so cool to learn about it!
Had not heard of this, that's impressive.
Got to play around on a White Alice (?) station near Homer, Alaska maybe 40 years ago or so. It was an abandoned station on Ohlson Mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohlson_Mountain_Air_Force_Stat...).
There was a huge dish pointing straight up. A friend and I walked around on the dish. There was a very small compartment more or less where the elevation axis was. The slightly creepy feeling I might get stuck in it kept me from going in but my friend did.
Another large structure was likely a transmitter. A large surface with a grid of smaller antennas covering one side.
Most cool to me though were the rooms with 6 foot high panels with all manner of analog meters, switches, lights.... Nothing worked of course, most everything was smashed. I wish now that I had brought some tools and removed as many of the components as I could.
My overall impression was a kind of wonderment that so much money and effort would be expended by the U.S. government to watch for Soviet aircraft/missiles. So much equipment built, foundations poured, cinder blocks stacked...
And then I suppose sophisticated satellites made it all obsolete.
Just so you know, that site was finally really covered over the past 5 years or so (haven't lived over there in a bit). Truckloads of gravel. I wish they would have made it a museum and taken care of it instead of just letting it rot!
Great site. The DYE-2 and DYE-3 stations built on the glacier that they just abandoned remind me of something you'd see in a post apocalyptic movie or game.
This video shows some explorers looking around inside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMTTjVIMWoE
My other favorite Cold War site is Safeguard, a 70's era anti-ballistic missile system that cost six billion and was only operational for six months. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_R._Mickelsen_Safeguard...
In-laws are from that immediate area. I've been inside the PAR which is still operational, and done some outside the fence viewing of the Nekoma site before it was decommissioned.
Love the almost alien building look that the Wikipedia article has as the main image. So very brutalist but ultimately for utility.
Eventual replacement:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Warning_System
An upgrade was recently announced with a collaboration with Australia:
* https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/canada-early-warning-de...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindalee_Operational_Radar_Net...
Reminds me of when we used to drive past a Pinetree Line station every summer on the way to visit my grandparents.
computer.rip has tons of great posts on topics like this