I am Australian, the state that we have become is just sad. The fact that this is brought under the disguise of "child protection" is ridiculous and I never would have imagine a future in my own country where I have to submit my ID to access anything online. They will never achieve anything with this because everyone will just use VPN. It's costing taxpayer's money without any useful outcome. The level of incompetence displayed by this government is astonishing.
* The Labor government's failed 2010 internet filter policy, [1]
"Those who claim the government's approach is akin to the sort of political censorship practiced by authoritarian regimes are simply misleading the Australian public."
* The Liberal government's passed 2015 mandatory metadata retention laws, [2]
"Critics say Australia’s data retention scheme is mass surveillance, and metadata is used to track where people go."
because it doesn't seem like you do. I could also point to the UK's full-take surveillance apparatus, or the US, from around about the same time-frame.
It boggles my mind that they gave police a legal avenue to take over accounts and modify data a few years later:
The Surveillance Legislation Amendment (Identify and Disrupt) Act 2021 (SLAID Act) introduced new powers for Australian law enforcement to combat serious cyber-enabled crime. These powers include data disruption warrants, network activity warrants, and account takeover warrants.
Just a note - it's not just "this Government" - this is bipartisan and has a long history spanning decades. Both sides are just as incompetent as each other when it comes to technology and the Internet.
It's exactly the same kind of problem that we've always had here, summed up in 1964 by Donald Horne, "Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise."
I guarantee this will be the response when this doesn't work - surprise. They'll claim it was a sure thing, that they did everything right (even though they went through multiple rounds of sham "public consultations" and ignored all the expert testimony)...
I’m not sure if there is some super secret hidden motive / conspiracy here but I do know that the internet and social media is basically poisoning politics and society. Go read about what’s happening in Japan. Some loser started a political party based on 100% lies about immigrants and vaccines destroying the country (sound familiar?) and just gained a huge share of votes in a small amount of time.
The argument you’re making is “freedom at all costs” the trouble with all of this is, can we even trust ourselves with this freedom. Your big brain might be immune to l the cruft out there but that’s not universal.
I honestly don’t know what the answer is but we’re in trouble. The reason China does what it does it not just because it’s an authoritarian hell hole, but because they know the games they play on others and don’t want it to happen to them.
I’m not sure if you’ve read 1984, but having our children brainwashed online is a great way to get us close to total authoritarianism, on the other hand you’re arguing that by having to ID yourself when logging on (let’s face it, that’s already happening) means we’re already in 1984?
Maybe, but the proposed cure is far, far worse than the disease. Hell, in your very post, you bemoan how untrustworthy and/or authoritarian governments and politicians are.. and the solution is to hand them more power, more surveillance?
There was frustration around the globe about pandemic policies. Specifically lockdowns, mask mandates, check-ins, and "no jab no job" ultimatums, which have since been identified in many places as excessive abuse of power that went beyond public health all the way into the social coercion manipulation zone.
On immigration, is it not worth listening to the concerns of locals on rising immigration numbers? On associated social unrest? Or do we label them "100% liars" and censor their words with mandated face-scanning and digital check-ins.
This how good lies work. You take an element of the truth and wrap it around the lie. Japan might very well be frustrated about immigrants but that doesn't make every complaint about immigrants true.
It would be really cool if you did some research before commenting.
They argue vaccines don't work and the reality is Japan's immigration numbers a minuscule and basically the only way to be in Japan as an immigrant is to have a visa and a job, or you're out. They don't have any "illegals".
Do you have any idea how important vaccines are in a country with a predominately old population and some of the lowest birth rates in the world?
Do you have any idea how important immigrant worker are in a country which is basically running out of workers?
These people don't really care about outcomes, they manipulate fools en masse to vote for them so they can get into power do corrupt / cruel shit. It's populism with zero practical implementation plan except being an asshole to the most vulnerable people in the country to keep xenophobes happy.
I think the poster you are replying to is talking about what's going on in Australia while you're talking about Japan, sounds like some wires crossed there.
But the point still stands that what you're implying you want to see - a broad Government-run censorship campaign cracking down on free speech - is not the solution, and probably will only make things worse in the longer term.
I'm in Australia, but I was talking about the whole globe. A clue is when I said "around the globe". From China to USA, the pandemic restrictions and hustle went overboard in many cases.
Often these opposition parties might use theatrics, exaggeration and outlandish claims to attract attention. In some ways, this might reflect the official channels who spray a lot of fear-based propaganda initially. So there might be an overcompensatory reaction to an overcompensatory action. Not trying to excuse blanket anti-vax theories.
Vaccines are of course great inventions, but sometimes the waters get murky with pharmaceutical companies and their ethically poor track records, suddenly making huge profits and frantic politicians calling the shots on public health. Throw free-speech crackdowns in the mix, and now we have a problem worth talking about without emotion.
But what's your solution to extreme amounts of disinformation and propaganda ? This is my issue, everyone is all free speech at all costs, but if you look at the USA, the cost is extreme, potentially even terminal. I don't really see anyway out of it at this stage, I hope I'm wrong and I hope free speech prevails, but right now, I can't see it's looking good.
I'm not saying your wrong, nor am I saying "free speech bad", I'm saying something needs to be done to at lest protect children from ideas like, "Winston Churchill started WW2 and Hitler was just a victim".
Personally, I'd be taking issue, serious issue, if the plan by the Australian government was to block access to libraries and history books, but that's not what I see happening here, they're to do something about foreign propaganda poising kids brains and because the companies would never regulate themselves, they're trying to do something but it seems futile.
That's not the solution. The prevailing theme taught to kids these days is "question everything". Not taking things at face-value, or believing memes and one-line theories, forms part of the young person's toolbox these days. It really does. Their teachers are drilling into them the dangers of online misinformation.
You and I wouldn't have known the difference between misinformation and disinformation in our school days (I'm assuming you're grown up), but kids these days know all about it. That should give you some comfort.
If certain Japanese political parties are making wild claims, let the dust settle and the ridiculous stuff eventually is exposed. Don't ignore subtle variation and nuance when for example we examine the claims made about the covid vaccine and protection from transmission. Or effectiveness of masks, etc. In Australia, police were literally tackling people to the ground outside for not wearing masks. So let's not trust government issued health advice so blindly either. Let's find a middle-ground of analysis & discussion.
Not sure how old you are but a lot of the younger people are the more right wing at the moment, look how popular Joe Rogan is, do you think the kids are "questioning everything" there?
We need to simply take away children's access to the unfiltered internet, and we need this to be done by local device parental controls - children get iPhones that allow only a whitelisted part of the internet. We adults need to enforce it and make it a social norm, like you don't buy cigarettes for kids. Then this mass surveillance "for the children" concept can go away, and also the children really shouldn't be exposed to certain information, which we all know it when we see it, until they are old enough.
As a parent I really like googles family controls, all of it. Except ONE thing.. I cannot block or limit YouTube Shorts.
Whenever my daughter watches regular YouTube there's a good chance she might watch something creative or educational or something that ends up with her suddenly making something out of paper, or drawing or anything physical. Learning about something amazing and getting excited.
YouTube Shorts is just AI slop, and horrible content I wish never existed.
In general there needs to be a way to disable Youtube Shorts. It's a massive attention hole that preys on people in a very addiction forming way. Doubly so for people with ADHD, etc.
Yep you can use extensions but tbh they are of varying quality and youtube changes their site so much in an attempt to fight adblockers that most youtube extensions tend to be really brittle.
You could access via web browser and try this uBlock Origin list [1], props to this commenter [2] who helpfully posted it a while ago. Or if you must use a native app, on Android use a patched version of YT that supresses shorts from the view (to be honest the user agency it still allows, is for me worth enough to prefer Android over its competition)
For phones. If you use the YT app (Or logged in I think). If you disable your watch history it removes the shorts. But I wish there was another way. I use Unhook browser plugin on my computer browser.
I use brave browser and block anything related to shorts. The sound still plays in the background but the videos don't play which makes it unenjoyable. Helped me give up shorts.
I'm talking about my kid here. I think you're missing the point of what I'm talking about here. YouTube is ok for the most part, where as shorts is mostly not ok, and there's no way to turn it off.
I am Australian, the state that we have become is just sad. The fact that this is brought under the disguise of "child protection" is ridiculous and I never would have imagine a future in my own country where I have to submit my ID to access anything online. They will never achieve anything with this because everyone will just use VPN. It's costing taxpayer's money without any useful outcome. The level of incompetence displayed by this government is astonishing.
As an Australian, do you remember:
* The Labor government's failed 2010 internet filter policy, [1] "Those who claim the government's approach is akin to the sort of political censorship practiced by authoritarian regimes are simply misleading the Australian public."
* The Liberal government's passed 2015 mandatory metadata retention laws, [2] "Critics say Australia’s data retention scheme is mass surveillance, and metadata is used to track where people go."
because it doesn't seem like you do. I could also point to the UK's full-take surveillance apparatus, or the US, from around about the same time-frame.
This is a long term project.
[1] https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/internet-filter-is-not-c...
[2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-17/metadata-retention-pr...
It boggles my mind that they gave police a legal avenue to take over accounts and modify data a few years later:
The Surveillance Legislation Amendment (Identify and Disrupt) Act 2021 (SLAID Act) introduced new powers for Australian law enforcement to combat serious cyber-enabled crime. These powers include data disruption warrants, network activity warrants, and account takeover warrants.
https://theconversation.com/facebook-or-twitter-posts-can-no...
Just a note - it's not just "this Government" - this is bipartisan and has a long history spanning decades. Both sides are just as incompetent as each other when it comes to technology and the Internet.
It's exactly the same kind of problem that we've always had here, summed up in 1964 by Donald Horne, "Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people's ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise."
I guarantee this will be the response when this doesn't work - surprise. They'll claim it was a sure thing, that they did everything right (even though they went through multiple rounds of sham "public consultations" and ignored all the expert testimony)...
Australia is slowly copying China. They will move on banning VPNs in a year of two.
It may be government incompetence, but it might also be a plan to identify everyone online.
The same will come to Europe if citizens don't push back.
There was the push to intercept all chat traffic with ChatControl legislation.
And with Digital ID will come to identify all users on net.
Luckily the WHO takeover got push back in USA and many other states, don't know for Australia
The truly demoralising thing is that you can move to the more or less exact other side of the planet and you have the exact same shit going on.
[dead]
I’m not sure if there is some super secret hidden motive / conspiracy here but I do know that the internet and social media is basically poisoning politics and society. Go read about what’s happening in Japan. Some loser started a political party based on 100% lies about immigrants and vaccines destroying the country (sound familiar?) and just gained a huge share of votes in a small amount of time.
The argument you’re making is “freedom at all costs” the trouble with all of this is, can we even trust ourselves with this freedom. Your big brain might be immune to l the cruft out there but that’s not universal.
I honestly don’t know what the answer is but we’re in trouble. The reason China does what it does it not just because it’s an authoritarian hell hole, but because they know the games they play on others and don’t want it to happen to them.
I’m not sure if you’ve read 1984, but having our children brainwashed online is a great way to get us close to total authoritarianism, on the other hand you’re arguing that by having to ID yourself when logging on (let’s face it, that’s already happening) means we’re already in 1984?
Maybe, but the proposed cure is far, far worse than the disease. Hell, in your very post, you bemoan how untrustworthy and/or authoritarian governments and politicians are.. and the solution is to hand them more power, more surveillance?
> "100% lies about immigrants and vaccines"
There was frustration around the globe about pandemic policies. Specifically lockdowns, mask mandates, check-ins, and "no jab no job" ultimatums, which have since been identified in many places as excessive abuse of power that went beyond public health all the way into the social coercion manipulation zone.
On immigration, is it not worth listening to the concerns of locals on rising immigration numbers? On associated social unrest? Or do we label them "100% liars" and censor their words with mandated face-scanning and digital check-ins.
This how good lies work. You take an element of the truth and wrap it around the lie. Japan might very well be frustrated about immigrants but that doesn't make every complaint about immigrants true.
It would be really cool if you did some research before commenting.
They argue vaccines don't work and the reality is Japan's immigration numbers a minuscule and basically the only way to be in Japan as an immigrant is to have a visa and a job, or you're out. They don't have any "illegals".
Do you have any idea how important vaccines are in a country with a predominately old population and some of the lowest birth rates in the world?
Do you have any idea how important immigrant worker are in a country which is basically running out of workers?
These people don't really care about outcomes, they manipulate fools en masse to vote for them so they can get into power do corrupt / cruel shit. It's populism with zero practical implementation plan except being an asshole to the most vulnerable people in the country to keep xenophobes happy.
I think the poster you are replying to is talking about what's going on in Australia while you're talking about Japan, sounds like some wires crossed there.
But the point still stands that what you're implying you want to see - a broad Government-run censorship campaign cracking down on free speech - is not the solution, and probably will only make things worse in the longer term.
I'm in Australia, but I was talking about the whole globe. A clue is when I said "around the globe". From China to USA, the pandemic restrictions and hustle went overboard in many cases.
Often these opposition parties might use theatrics, exaggeration and outlandish claims to attract attention. In some ways, this might reflect the official channels who spray a lot of fear-based propaganda initially. So there might be an overcompensatory reaction to an overcompensatory action. Not trying to excuse blanket anti-vax theories.
Vaccines are of course great inventions, but sometimes the waters get murky with pharmaceutical companies and their ethically poor track records, suddenly making huge profits and frantic politicians calling the shots on public health. Throw free-speech crackdowns in the mix, and now we have a problem worth talking about without emotion.
But what's your solution to extreme amounts of disinformation and propaganda ? This is my issue, everyone is all free speech at all costs, but if you look at the USA, the cost is extreme, potentially even terminal. I don't really see anyway out of it at this stage, I hope I'm wrong and I hope free speech prevails, but right now, I can't see it's looking good.
I'm not saying your wrong, nor am I saying "free speech bad", I'm saying something needs to be done to at lest protect children from ideas like, "Winston Churchill started WW2 and Hitler was just a victim".
Personally, I'd be taking issue, serious issue, if the plan by the Australian government was to block access to libraries and history books, but that's not what I see happening here, they're to do something about foreign propaganda poising kids brains and because the companies would never regulate themselves, they're trying to do something but it seems futile.
> protect children from ideas
That's not the solution. The prevailing theme taught to kids these days is "question everything". Not taking things at face-value, or believing memes and one-line theories, forms part of the young person's toolbox these days. It really does. Their teachers are drilling into them the dangers of online misinformation.
You and I wouldn't have known the difference between misinformation and disinformation in our school days (I'm assuming you're grown up), but kids these days know all about it. That should give you some comfort.
If certain Japanese political parties are making wild claims, let the dust settle and the ridiculous stuff eventually is exposed. Don't ignore subtle variation and nuance when for example we examine the claims made about the covid vaccine and protection from transmission. Or effectiveness of masks, etc. In Australia, police were literally tackling people to the ground outside for not wearing masks. So let's not trust government issued health advice so blindly either. Let's find a middle-ground of analysis & discussion.
Not sure how old you are but a lot of the younger people are the more right wing at the moment, look how popular Joe Rogan is, do you think the kids are "questioning everything" there?
We need to simply take away children's access to the unfiltered internet, and we need this to be done by local device parental controls - children get iPhones that allow only a whitelisted part of the internet. We adults need to enforce it and make it a social norm, like you don't buy cigarettes for kids. Then this mass surveillance "for the children" concept can go away, and also the children really shouldn't be exposed to certain information, which we all know it when we see it, until they are old enough.
> We adults need to enforce it and make it a social norm, like you don't buy cigarettes for kids.
We could do it using some kind of law!
As a parent I really like googles family controls, all of it. Except ONE thing.. I cannot block or limit YouTube Shorts.
Whenever my daughter watches regular YouTube there's a good chance she might watch something creative or educational or something that ends up with her suddenly making something out of paper, or drawing or anything physical. Learning about something amazing and getting excited.
YouTube Shorts is just AI slop, and horrible content I wish never existed.
In general there needs to be a way to disable Youtube Shorts. It's a massive attention hole that preys on people in a very addiction forming way. Doubly so for people with ADHD, etc.
you can turn it off on a PC browser with an extension.
but yeah on a device or on the network no :-( I have the same complaint
Yep you can use extensions but tbh they are of varying quality and youtube changes their site so much in an attempt to fight adblockers that most youtube extensions tend to be really brittle.
If you're using Android, then you have access to Firefox and its library of extensions.
You could access via web browser and try this uBlock Origin list [1], props to this commenter [2] who helpfully posted it a while ago. Or if you must use a native app, on Android use a patched version of YT that supresses shorts from the view (to be honest the user agency it still allows, is for me worth enough to prefer Android over its competition)
[1]: https://github.com/Harren06/ublock-yt-shorts
[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43848253
For phones. If you use the YT app (Or logged in I think). If you disable your watch history it removes the shorts. But I wish there was another way. I use Unhook browser plugin on my computer browser.
I use brave browser and block anything related to shorts. The sound still plays in the background but the videos don't play which makes it unenjoyable. Helped me give up shorts.
> YouTube Shorts is just AI slop, and horrible content I wish never existed.
This is only what you watch, for me I get short form of the same content I watch on youtube video (music, games and podcasts)
I'm talking about my kid here. I think you're missing the point of what I'm talking about here. YouTube is ok for the most part, where as shorts is mostly not ok, and there's no way to turn it off.
kid reels might be AI slop
I don't live in Australia, but just to be safe, I saved everything I liked. And not just that stuff. Everything!
As an Australian I am disgusted by this backwards, authoritarian, ant-privacy approach.