I openly admit that I probably lack the vision others have about these devices with flexible screens, so I find this type of display functionality useless and prone to failure. I'm not the target audience, I guess.
I cannot possibly imagine what I'd do with a "rollable" laptop, but I do see one tiny benefit to foldable phones; reduced pocket consumption. Having a smaller device or a device that gets smaller is just two different ways to solve my main beef with modern phablets.
Personally, I wish someone would just make a clamshell smart phone where I open it up to a single screen on one half and a physical keyboard on another, but that's a different discussion.
That all said, I'm curious to hear from the people who want this device. What's drawing you to it? What problem does this type of display on a laptop solve for you? What are your concerns about its robustness or longevity, if any?
Gave it a simulation-run and I think I really like this layout!
Working I usually prefer to have 2 normal + laptop screen when docked instead of a single extra-wide ones some at the office use when docking their laptops.
Part of it is that much software today is designed for 16:9 or 16:10 layouts and work less well in 4:3 squared form fashions (why splitting an external wide-screen is often less optimal than 2 "normal" 16:9 externals).
Now, for on the road use I've bought an external 16:9 screen but sitting next to the laptop the head-turn to the left/right is a tad too large to be fully comfortable (When docked I sit a tad further away so the 2+1 screens give a smaller angle).
Finally, coming back to this one, if as the article mentions you get 2x 16:9 layouts stacked on top of each other it'll be pretty neat for coding/debugging/testing. Top part for browser or other target environment and lower part for debugger/code editor without needing to lug anything apart from my computer with a reasonable head-turning.
Just physically tried the layout when writing this with my external USB-screen and it's probably as comfortable as goes without external keyboard+external screens, probably even an improvement over just regular laptop screen since you can look more straight ahead on the top part than with a normal laptop on a table!
F-Droid is great, but it doesn't update your OS. I'm less worried about application availability than system security patches. (And, to a lesser degree, I do eventually want some degree of features from the newer systems as well. I don't mind slightly older versions of Android as long as they're still getting security patches, but after 5 versions I think we're starting to get a little bit painful.)
Did not know about this, thanks for pointing it out. It is not precisely what I had in mind, but appealing none the less.
The phone I had in mind is akin to Motorola's RAZR Ultra. As opposed to opening like a book the way Samsung's latest does, unfolding the "top" half provides a smaller-than-average smartphone screen, leaving room for a Blackberry-style keyboard below.
I'm in that niche market where I do not need a large screen on my phone since I am mostly reading text as opposed to watching media. It's not likely I'll ever get precisely what I want due to practicality of both manufacturing and what the general market demands are. I've come to terms with it, but if someone ever drops such a device, I will get in line for it.
I thought foldable phones were dumb until I saw a bunch of phones and tablets in person at a Huawei shop. They are super-neat actually and I now see how they make sense.
The rollable laptop seems to be something in the same vein? It is much smaller than a laptop with that screen size.
I wish the phone guys would stop folding and start rolling. Id buy a pixel9xl with a cigar round bit on one side (ideally left side for me) to rolls out tp a tablet sized screen when i choose.
My desk setup has a single 27-inch monitor with my work laptop on a stand next to it [1]. That's really all the desk space I can allocate to screens.
I don't want a laptop larger than about 13.5" because it wouldn't fit nicely in my backpack anymore. So, the only way for me to add screen real estate is to expand vertically.
That said, the bendy screen tech is far away from having a place in my life. I value durability very highly in my technology.
I mean, I wouldn't buy this one, but I see the use case. A lot of reading (code, webpages) is done vertically, it's helpful to have more vertical real estate in a typical form factor.
I'm not sure about robustness, would have to wait and see tests.
Some of the benefits the author lists make a lot of sense. The elevated sightline helps with posture, and improves the webcam angle. I use my laptop as a secondary display when working from home, and the idea of getting more real estate from the same 14-inch footprint is appealing.
I think it's telling that they aren't rolling this out in a ThinkPad-branded device. The bendy screen tech isn't really there yet. The screen surface is still wiggly, and reliability still isn't what it should be.
> The elevated sightline helps with posture, and improves the webcam angle.
Exactly. I've been doing this with a tablet on a stand for a few years..there's a whole subreddit on having ergonomic travel computers: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/
The screenshots on the Lenovo site all show the single 16.7" screen being used as two screens, one above the other.
If you're not going to use it as a single screen, it's not that much better than carrying around a USB-C portable monitor, unless you switch locations several times each day.
Cool but I just want mouse buttons. Why did we stop doing mouse buttons? Clickpads are horrible and I'm worried that we are forgetting what we've lost.
I wonder how Linux deals with this? Is extending the screen a display resize? Or a cropped area extension? Or a different display? Even more questions about using it as two monitors...
Up to the hardware how it presents this to the driver, up to the driver to expose it to the userspace, up to X11 or the Wayland compositor to figure it out.
Dynamically resizable displays have been a thing for like 2 decades - check out any GUI VM with guest extensions.
lenovo do need to work on their speaker game - on thinkpads speakers are weak. I'm not sure of parts cost but given thinkpad's target segment even an extra $50 won't hurt for macbook level quality speakers
you might be right. but my take is you source these parts - hell they can even source them from the apple parts bin - like Nintendo sources parts for their hardware. surely i'm not asking them to invent speakers from scratch just to get better ones.
I don't think i have a problem that can be fixed by this solution. When on the go, i want my laptop to be small and portable, when seated at a desk i want my display to be as big as possible, e.g, 32inch 4k, or 2 x 27inch.
It really is too bad Lenovo switched to cheaper AES stylus tech that's trash for art due to jitter and poor polling, with the added insult of the stylus needing a battery now.
Apple and Samsung are the only large manufacturers shipping competent pen tech anymore.
not surprised, lenovo has tons of models like L13, X13, N13, how on earth as a regular human am I supposed to make sense of it? Now I have a rollable screen, what does it even mean..
there are so many things I don't understand, same with foldable phones. I am also super happy companies like framework exist, give me a few choices, I don't need much, I want to forget times of tetrising my PC when I was a kid.
> how on earth as a regular human am I supposed to make sense of it?
By wanting to, and then choosing to?
> Now I have a rollable screen, what does it even mean..
Did you.. click on the link?
There are plenty of brands with a more limited product range and simpler market positioning, as you just pointed out. If those are a good fit for you and you like them, that's great. There's a reason macbooks and chromebooks are so popular.
I honestly don't get why someone would feel compelled to publicly complain about the very existence of products that they don't want or need or understand.
I wish they would go all-in. Imagine a laptop/tablet/phone that rolls all the way into a cylinder, like a scroll. Sure, it would be fragile during use, but it would be much stronger while stowed, and you might even be able to avoid the crease problem.
I am happy to see a laptop with a portrait orientation, though. The only thing landscape is good for is watching video. Everything else is better in portrait.
I think if they iron out the kinks that could easily be the direction they take it. Something more limited and controlled to start might be a smart "first step".
The sort of people I know who would buy that are the sort of people who will break it within the first week of owning it. It is the same with folding phone owners I know.
Hey! All these devices will still work just fine if I can only figure out how to put them back together again. Except all the ones with the broken plastic clips.
> I think most people lack horizontal space more than vertical.
Is this your own experience? I’ve personally rarely suffered for horizontal space, but very often for a bit more vertical space, especially with web-browsing now being so vertically cluttered.
I think many workflows are top-to-bottom in a way that benefits from more vertical space to keep it all in view - though development is probably exceptionally well-suited. My current setup (cribbed from an ex-colleague) is two vertical screens side-by-side, and I miss it whenever I’m working with a horizontal display.
I don’t exclusively use vertical splits - often I opt for a four-corner split if I need more than 2 panes at a time.
But your avoidance of vertical splits likely comes for the same reasons I have a rotated screen - shrinking the vertical space in a buffer by any amount on a horizontal display quickly hits some kind of ergonomic limit where you just can’t see enough of the file at a time. I find that not only splits, but also console output, search results , etc. take up too much vertical space.
In the past I've agreed but this setup might just hit a sweet-spot, sitting at home the laptop is usually on a table and you keep looking downwards. Just tried setting up my USB-screen above my laptop and got pleasantly surprised by how I can look straight on the upper one.
Basically, upper part of this roll-up becomes a good "main-screen" and you can still have an auxillary lower part for extra stuff.
Serious question. Am I completely old-fashioned for not expecting the word ass to appear in a professional article? Am I, a mature professional, not the target audience for this laptop or for this article? Who else would such a laptop be targeted at?
> The other audible quirk is the ThinkBook’s “you’re doing it wrong” alarm: If you start closing the lid with the screen extended, or you move the screen while it’s rolling, the laptop emits a high-pitched tone. It’s the most 90s-motherboard-ass thing I’ve heard in a long time, but I find its needling sound oddly charming.
Would I expect to read this in a corporate press release? Not really. Would I expect to find some author trying to be a bit funny in a Verge article? Probably. Is it borderline offensive? I don't think so, wouldn't even think about it unless I read this comment first.
As someone who actually was putting components on motherboards in the '90s, and even had replaced some capacitors on motherboards in the '90s, I see I'm not the target audience for the article at least. He probably should have saved the profanity for an analogy that his target audience could relate to.
You can be sure you won't ever see this word in nytimes, WSJ or even CNET, but the Verge is not one of them (and to my understanding, founded partly because the founders didn't want to be part of legacy media).
I mean, Verge is entertainment, not some academically inclined publishing house. And IMHO the word "ass" has long lost its weight as an offensive or even a "strong" one. It's just ass — we all have 'em. :-)
The Fuddruckers sequence in Idiocracy comes to mind. Beyond the mainstreaming of what was previously perceived as profanity, it also seems that punctuation and capitalization are slowly on their way out.
I openly admit that I probably lack the vision others have about these devices with flexible screens, so I find this type of display functionality useless and prone to failure. I'm not the target audience, I guess.
I cannot possibly imagine what I'd do with a "rollable" laptop, but I do see one tiny benefit to foldable phones; reduced pocket consumption. Having a smaller device or a device that gets smaller is just two different ways to solve my main beef with modern phablets.
Personally, I wish someone would just make a clamshell smart phone where I open it up to a single screen on one half and a physical keyboard on another, but that's a different discussion.
That all said, I'm curious to hear from the people who want this device. What's drawing you to it? What problem does this type of display on a laptop solve for you? What are your concerns about its robustness or longevity, if any?
Gave it a simulation-run and I think I really like this layout!
Working I usually prefer to have 2 normal + laptop screen when docked instead of a single extra-wide ones some at the office use when docking their laptops.
Part of it is that much software today is designed for 16:9 or 16:10 layouts and work less well in 4:3 squared form fashions (why splitting an external wide-screen is often less optimal than 2 "normal" 16:9 externals).
Now, for on the road use I've bought an external 16:9 screen but sitting next to the laptop the head-turn to the left/right is a tad too large to be fully comfortable (When docked I sit a tad further away so the 2+1 screens give a smaller angle).
Finally, coming back to this one, if as the article mentions you get 2x 16:9 layouts stacked on top of each other it'll be pretty neat for coding/debugging/testing. Top part for browser or other target environment and lower part for debugger/code editor without needing to lug anything apart from my computer with a reasonable head-turning.
Just physically tried the layout when writing this with my external USB-screen and it's probably as comfortable as goes without external keyboard+external screens, probably even an improvement over just regular laptop screen since you can look more straight ahead on the top part than with a normal laptop on a table!
Like the Cosmo Communicator?
https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/cosmo-communicator
> Running Android 9 OS as standard.
- https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/cosmo-communicator
It's really too bad that they can't do software, because the hardware is amazing
Install f-droid ...
F-Droid is great, but it doesn't update your OS. I'm less worried about application availability than system security patches. (And, to a lesser degree, I do eventually want some degree of features from the newer systems as well. I don't mind slightly older versions of Android as long as they're still getting security patches, but after 5 versions I think we're starting to get a little bit painful.)
Did not know about this, thanks for pointing it out. It is not precisely what I had in mind, but appealing none the less.
The phone I had in mind is akin to Motorola's RAZR Ultra. As opposed to opening like a book the way Samsung's latest does, unfolding the "top" half provides a smaller-than-average smartphone screen, leaving room for a Blackberry-style keyboard below.
I'm in that niche market where I do not need a large screen on my phone since I am mostly reading text as opposed to watching media. It's not likely I'll ever get precisely what I want due to practicality of both manufacturing and what the general market demands are. I've come to terms with it, but if someone ever drops such a device, I will get in line for it.
Wow, the Motorola Milestone all over again.
I thought foldable phones were dumb until I saw a bunch of phones and tablets in person at a Huawei shop. They are super-neat actually and I now see how they make sense.
The rollable laptop seems to be something in the same vein? It is much smaller than a laptop with that screen size.
I wish the phone guys would stop folding and start rolling. Id buy a pixel9xl with a cigar round bit on one side (ideally left side for me) to rolls out tp a tablet sized screen when i choose.
My desk setup has a single 27-inch monitor with my work laptop on a stand next to it [1]. That's really all the desk space I can allocate to screens.
I don't want a laptop larger than about 13.5" because it wouldn't fit nicely in my backpack anymore. So, the only way for me to add screen real estate is to expand vertically.
That said, the bendy screen tech is far away from having a place in my life. I value durability very highly in my technology.
[1]: these pictures should help you visualize it: https://postimg.cc/gallery/6pz9Gz1
I mean, I wouldn't buy this one, but I see the use case. A lot of reading (code, webpages) is done vertically, it's helpful to have more vertical real estate in a typical form factor.
I'm not sure about robustness, would have to wait and see tests.
>I cannot possibly imagine what I'd do with a "rollable" laptop
Reach the cookie banner without having to scroll down
Could you imagine living in a world where webdevs actually knew how to accommodate different viewports? Peace on Earth, guaranteed.
So what you're saying is... it'll never happen?
Some of the benefits the author lists make a lot of sense. The elevated sightline helps with posture, and improves the webcam angle. I use my laptop as a secondary display when working from home, and the idea of getting more real estate from the same 14-inch footprint is appealing.
I think it's telling that they aren't rolling this out in a ThinkPad-branded device. The bendy screen tech isn't really there yet. The screen surface is still wiggly, and reliability still isn't what it should be.
> The elevated sightline helps with posture, and improves the webcam angle.
Exactly. I've been doing this with a tablet on a stand for a few years..there's a whole subreddit on having ergonomic travel computers: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/
Funny how they are forcing you to "view in app" because the community is "unreviewed" ...
... anything for installs, I guess.-
old.reddit .com
Indeed. Thanks - might it forever live in our retinas, harkening back to a time where that dumpster of a site was at least readable ...
https://archive.is/hWOjP
The screenshots on the Lenovo site all show the single 16.7" screen being used as two screens, one above the other.
If you're not going to use it as a single screen, it's not that much better than carrying around a USB-C portable monitor, unless you switch locations several times each day.
Cool but I just want mouse buttons. Why did we stop doing mouse buttons? Clickpads are horrible and I'm worried that we are forgetting what we've lost.
There are still a few left. For example, https://www.hp.com/us-en/workstations/zbook-fury.html and https://www.fujitsu.com/ph/products/computing/pc/ap/notebook....
Oh boy, I feel you, having no buttons is such a PITA. I've mapped my caps lock and windows button to LMB and RMB for years, works like a charm!
I hate touchpads as a whole.
When did we stop doing laptop trackballs? (I know, I know, the last laptop with a trackball is able to legally drink by now)
The MNT reform has a trackball option: https://mntre.com/index.html
Does anyone even make a laptop that's thick enough to have room for a usefully-sized trackball in there any more?
That is defeatist thinking!
I wonder how Linux deals with this? Is extending the screen a display resize? Or a cropped area extension? Or a different display? Even more questions about using it as two monitors...
Up to the hardware how it presents this to the driver, up to the driver to expose it to the userspace, up to X11 or the Wayland compositor to figure it out.
Dynamically resizable displays have been a thing for like 2 decades - check out any GUI VM with guest extensions.
A Lenovo without a trackpoint us less useful than tits on a bull.
I rather wish that they had rolled with their transparent screen concept:
https://www.windowscentral.com/hardware/laptops/lenovos-tran...
it would have been _amazing_ for usage as a manual/teaching aid in a shop setting.
lenovo do need to work on their speaker game - on thinkpads speakers are weak. I'm not sure of parts cost but given thinkpad's target segment even an extra $50 won't hurt for macbook level quality speakers
It's not about parts cost, it's about r&d cost. Apple invests so much money into the quality of those internal speakers.
you might be right. but my take is you source these parts - hell they can even source them from the apple parts bin - like Nintendo sources parts for their hardware. surely i'm not asking them to invent speakers from scratch just to get better ones.
I don't think i have a problem that can be fixed by this solution. When on the go, i want my laptop to be small and portable, when seated at a desk i want my display to be as big as possible, e.g, 32inch 4k, or 2 x 27inch.
Finally, someone is trying to tackle the huge taskbar problem in Windows 11!
I like this idea, I wouldn't buy one but I always want more vertical space on a laptop screen.
A laptop with a regular screen that can raise up would be interesting, since that'd put it in a more comfortable viewing position.
Nah, I'll be waiting for a ScrollBook with touchscreen pen support and Windows 13 Proscription edition
It really is too bad Lenovo switched to cheaper AES stylus tech that's trash for art due to jitter and poor polling, with the added insult of the stylus needing a battery now.
Apple and Samsung are the only large manufacturers shipping competent pen tech anymore.
Lenovo should've let Hefei LCFC build their Gemini concept instead. :(
I'd love to try it but at £3,680 I probably won't.
not surprised, lenovo has tons of models like L13, X13, N13, how on earth as a regular human am I supposed to make sense of it? Now I have a rollable screen, what does it even mean..
there are so many things I don't understand, same with foldable phones. I am also super happy companies like framework exist, give me a few choices, I don't need much, I want to forget times of tetrising my PC when I was a kid.
> how on earth as a regular human am I supposed to make sense of it?
By wanting to, and then choosing to?
> Now I have a rollable screen, what does it even mean..
Did you.. click on the link?
There are plenty of brands with a more limited product range and simpler market positioning, as you just pointed out. If those are a good fit for you and you like them, that's great. There's a reason macbooks and chromebooks are so popular.
I honestly don't get why someone would feel compelled to publicly complain about the very existence of products that they don't want or need or understand.
then we both have something to learn :)
I wish they would go all-in. Imagine a laptop/tablet/phone that rolls all the way into a cylinder, like a scroll. Sure, it would be fragile during use, but it would be much stronger while stowed, and you might even be able to avoid the crease problem.
I am happy to see a laptop with a portrait orientation, though. The only thing landscape is good for is watching video. Everything else is better in portrait.
I think if they iron out the kinks that could easily be the direction they take it. Something more limited and controlled to start might be a smart "first step".
Yeah, opened the link, scrolled to the photos, was distracted, cannot view them again (in about an hour), due to the paywall. Cool.
Is there a word that is a portmanteau of "hate" and "love" because I hate this idea and love this idea in equal measure.
Maybe if it unrolled horizontally instead I would hate it less.
The closest that I know of, is the saying: "Thank you, I hate it."
I can't believe there's more of a market for this thing than there is for laptops with actual mouse buttons below the touchpad.
The sort of people I know who would buy that are the sort of people who will break it within the first week of owning it. It is the same with folding phone owners I know.
Hey! All these devices will still work just fine if I can only figure out how to put them back together again. Except all the ones with the broken plastic clips.
I think most people lack horizontal space more than vertical. Too much vertical space makes your neck tired.
> I think most people lack horizontal space more than vertical.
Is this your own experience? I’ve personally rarely suffered for horizontal space, but very often for a bit more vertical space, especially with web-browsing now being so vertically cluttered.
I think many workflows are top-to-bottom in a way that benefits from more vertical space to keep it all in view - though development is probably exceptionally well-suited. My current setup (cribbed from an ex-colleague) is two vertical screens side-by-side, and I miss it whenever I’m working with a horizontal display.
Yeah, it's my own experience. I'm so used to horizontal splits in the terminal and editor. I can't imagine using vertical splits for code.
I don’t exclusively use vertical splits - often I opt for a four-corner split if I need more than 2 panes at a time.
But your avoidance of vertical splits likely comes for the same reasons I have a rotated screen - shrinking the vertical space in a buffer by any amount on a horizontal display quickly hits some kind of ergonomic limit where you just can’t see enough of the file at a time. I find that not only splits, but also console output, search results , etc. take up too much vertical space.
I miss vertical space a lot when browsing websites on a small screen. There is:
- The OS toolbar
- The browser tab and url bar
- often: A fixed website header
- sometimes: A fixed website footer
Sometimes I'm left with only ~600px of vertical content space. Which isn't much for reading content, much less for skimming it or getting an overview.
On my laptop, I have tabs on the left, and the status bar and dock are hidden unless I need to see them.
Regarding headers, in my browser, I have a built-in option to disable sticky headers. I don't remember any sticky footers.
1 and 2 are easily solved by pressing F11.
Are website header and footer that common nowadays? I tend to think it is more a thing from the past nowadays.
> The browser tab
You can have vertical tabs in Firefox without any plugins now.
In the past I've agreed but this setup might just hit a sweet-spot, sitting at home the laptop is usually on a table and you keep looking downwards. Just tried setting up my USB-screen above my laptop and got pleasantly surprised by how I can look straight on the upper one.
Basically, upper part of this roll-up becomes a good "main-screen" and you can still have an auxillary lower part for extra stuff.
Serious question. Am I completely old-fashioned for not expecting the word ass to appear in a professional article? Am I, a mature professional, not the target audience for this laptop or for this article? Who else would such a laptop be targeted at?
For context:
> The other audible quirk is the ThinkBook’s “you’re doing it wrong” alarm: If you start closing the lid with the screen extended, or you move the screen while it’s rolling, the laptop emits a high-pitched tone. It’s the most 90s-motherboard-ass thing I’ve heard in a long time, but I find its needling sound oddly charming.
Would I expect to read this in a corporate press release? Not really. Would I expect to find some author trying to be a bit funny in a Verge article? Probably. Is it borderline offensive? I don't think so, wouldn't even think about it unless I read this comment first.
> It’s the most 90s-motherboard-ass thing I’ve heard in a long time
I'm not really bothered by the profanity, but WTF does "90s-motherboard-ass" even mean as a modifier for a noun?
As someone who actually was putting components on motherboards in the '90s, and even had replaced some capacitors on motherboards in the '90s, I see I'm not the target audience for the article at least. He probably should have saved the profanity for an analogy that his target audience could relate to.
You can be sure you won't ever see this word in nytimes, WSJ or even CNET, but the Verge is not one of them (and to my understanding, founded partly because the founders didn't want to be part of legacy media).
I mean, Verge is entertainment, not some academically inclined publishing house. And IMHO the word "ass" has long lost its weight as an offensive or even a "strong" one. It's just ass — we all have 'em. :-)
The Fuddruckers sequence in Idiocracy comes to mind. Beyond the mainstreaming of what was previously perceived as profanity, it also seems that punctuation and capitalization are slowly on their way out.