> Hamas released the last 20 living Israeli hostages who had been captive for just over two years.
> In turn, Israel freed nearly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners and detainees.
edit to add: I have expressed no opinion here, I'm just quoting the part of the article I was curious about after seeing pictures of the very small convoy
> rules do not apply to war, Geneva Convention notwithstanding.
I don't know what so-called international law says, but if you're going to try to apply rules to war, it seems pretty essential that they apply to all sides or no sides, otherwise you create an exploitable situation that's ripe for abuse. The reward for following the rules should be that the other parties in the conflict follow them, too. The punishment for breaking them should be that the other parties no longer follow them.
The rules allow for wars. They don't prevent killing every combatant the other side has. The two sides agree to have a war, then their combatants kill one another until one side gives up or runs out of people to draft as combatants. The rules prohibit killing various classes of noncombatants, with some situational exceptions.
The supposed force behind the Geneva Convention is the threat of being tried for war crimes after the dust settles.
If you are Putin, and can accept never traveling to a list of western countries again, that threat is toothless.
But if you are literally defeated (as opposed to being forced to retreat from Ukraine, the most anyone could hope for in the invasion), it could weigh heavily on you. Or not. Politics are stupid.
I don't think one side would have randomly agreed to release without an exchange. Are you suggesting it would be better to leave the hostages of both sides in captivity just in case something happens upon release?
You‘re reading strange things into my factutal statement that Yahya Sinwar was part of the last big exchange. He‘s been in jail for abducting two Israeli Soldiers AND MURDERING FOUR PALESTINIANS.
I'm not reading that Israel released every person of Palestinian descent from their prisons. In another source I see "agreed-upon number of Palestinian security prisoners" which apparently is the 2,000 we heard about today. In another source I see that 9,619 people in Israeli prisons in December 2024 were Palestinian.
It sounds to nme that Israel had freedom to choose who would be released or would stay in prison. That there was a number of people negotiated without specifying individuals, and that the number was about 20% of the total prisoners.
It’s a difficult question. Hamas’ incentives are _not_ aligned with the well being of Palestinian civilians.
If we see another terror attack in several years one may have to question the reason of this line of thinking.
The discourse of this conflict has had a lot of people saying the genocide of Palestinians is bad (true!) but then doing this awkward hand wavey dance of trying to avoid having to confront that Hamas is a violent terrorist cell planted by a foreign government (Iran) rather than a freedom fighting force that cares about the general populace.
Yes, it's horrible and complicated, and there is no "good" solution.
But I believe that protecting innocents is morally superior to punishing the guilty. Innocent Israelis and Gazans are being freed, along with (probably) some despicable people.
But acting morally may yield strategically and utilitarianily harmful outcomes against bad faith adversaries.
Personally I think this was a geopolitical blunder of Israel and western interests. The net outcome is favorable. But it could have been much more favorable. I suspect we’ll see a gradual reconstitution of Iranian based power.
The West Bank continues to be under Israeli military occupation and constant annexation, and Gaza is still a giant dystopia controlled partially by Israel and partly by Hamas
> Hamas released the last 20 living Israeli hostages who had been captive for just over two years.
> In turn, Israel freed nearly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners and detainees.
edit to add: I have expressed no opinion here, I'm just quoting the part of the article I was curious about after seeing pictures of the very small convoy
Yes, that's how compromises work. Some progress is better than no progress.
You have replied as if I complained or said anything about the deal/compromise.
I simply quoted the numbers from the article because it was what I was curious about when I saw the headline & picture of the small convoy.
a lot of them are prisoners with no charge
Sounds highly illegal. But yeah I know , rules do not apply to war, Geneva Convention notwithstanding.
> Sounds highly illegal.
As opposed to literal hostage taking?
> rules do not apply to war, Geneva Convention notwithstanding.
I don't know what so-called international law says, but if you're going to try to apply rules to war, it seems pretty essential that they apply to all sides or no sides, otherwise you create an exploitable situation that's ripe for abuse. The reward for following the rules should be that the other parties in the conflict follow them, too. The punishment for breaking them should be that the other parties no longer follow them.
If both sides abide by the rules a war couldnt have started
The rules allow for wars. They don't prevent killing every combatant the other side has. The two sides agree to have a war, then their combatants kill one another until one side gives up or runs out of people to draft as combatants. The rules prohibit killing various classes of noncombatants, with some situational exceptions.
The supposed force behind the Geneva Convention is the threat of being tried for war crimes after the dust settles.
If you are Putin, and can accept never traveling to a list of western countries again, that threat is toothless.
But if you are literally defeated (as opposed to being forced to retreat from Ukraine, the most anyone could hope for in the invasion), it could weigh heavily on you. Or not. Politics are stupid.
Last time they've freed that many terrorists, one of them went home and planned Oct 7th.
I don't think one side would have randomly agreed to release without an exchange. Are you suggesting it would be better to leave the hostages of both sides in captivity just in case something happens upon release?
You‘re reading strange things into my factutal statement that Yahya Sinwar was part of the last big exchange. He‘s been in jail for abducting two Israeli Soldiers AND MURDERING FOUR PALESTINIANS.
Seems like this time, his ratio was even worse.
I'm not reading that Israel released every person of Palestinian descent from their prisons. In another source I see "agreed-upon number of Palestinian security prisoners" which apparently is the 2,000 we heard about today. In another source I see that 9,619 people in Israeli prisons in December 2024 were Palestinian.
It sounds to nme that Israel had freedom to choose who would be released or would stay in prison. That there was a number of people negotiated without specifying individuals, and that the number was about 20% of the total prisoners.
It’s a difficult question. Hamas’ incentives are _not_ aligned with the well being of Palestinian civilians.
If we see another terror attack in several years one may have to question the reason of this line of thinking.
The discourse of this conflict has had a lot of people saying the genocide of Palestinians is bad (true!) but then doing this awkward hand wavey dance of trying to avoid having to confront that Hamas is a violent terrorist cell planted by a foreign government (Iran) rather than a freedom fighting force that cares about the general populace.
Yes, it's horrible and complicated, and there is no "good" solution.
But I believe that protecting innocents is morally superior to punishing the guilty. Innocent Israelis and Gazans are being freed, along with (probably) some despicable people.
Sure.
But acting morally may yield strategically and utilitarianily harmful outcomes against bad faith adversaries.
Personally I think this was a geopolitical blunder of Israel and western interests. The net outcome is favorable. But it could have been much more favorable. I suspect we’ll see a gradual reconstitution of Iranian based power.
It's much easier for Israel to detain Palestinians than for Hamas to kidnap Israelis, so asymmetry makes sense.
Im curious why this post has been flagged.
It should be positive for both Pro-Israelies and pro-Palestinians.
Really educating to see where the narrative will shift now.
Heart breaks for Bipin Joshi and his family. Can't imagine what they had to go through :(
[flagged]
No reasonable person wants to be free from Hummus.
you don't need to censor hamas here lol
[dead]
The West Bank continues to be under Israeli military occupation and constant annexation, and Gaza is still a giant dystopia controlled partially by Israel and partly by Hamas
You are both an imbecile and a liar
Well, I don't see it that way, perhaps you are the imbecile and a liar?