One of the many troubling aspects is that MAGA policies are only making it worse for these voters. Where do they turn when tariffs lead to inflation, tax cuts for the wealthy generate even more debt, and the economy goes south as immigrant workers get deported (or flee)?
This is already happening, and don't forget the government shutdown which will cause these folks to lose a lot of much needed benefits, all while Trump is tearing down the White House to build his now $300MM ballroom, all while house Republicans refuse to go to work while still collecting a paycheck. One thing is clear, Republicans, maga or not, hold all levels of power federally and it is clear that they are going out of their way to leave working Americans behind.
There are a elections coming up in a few weeks, maybe we'll get an idea of where the wind is blowing, especially in NJ and VA.
Urbana isn't even that dead for a small town. It's a county seat. 11,000 people. Still has a high school. Had a university until 2000. There's some industry left.
The big milestones in the death of a town are when the high school closes, and, finally, when the post office closes.
I think stories like these are important for comfortable blue state liberals to read, for awareness and moving forward.
Coming from a non-wealthy, very religious, partly-conservative upbringing, I turned out to identify as very liberal-progressive. (My parents grew up in rural areas, my mom had a huge wood Reagan campaign sign in our yard, they were big on responsibility, and we weren't allowed to ever miss a single blessed Sunday of church nor religious extracurricular. Yet they were also epitomes of Christian charity, kept us in the city even when my dad's job tried to relocate him, and switched us to a noteworthy progressive church parish.)
As a liberal-progressive with this background, I've had a mix of pride and concern, over the years, about how my current socioeconomic peers have supported some good causes, but also let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus.
There's some truth to the stereotype of the techbro "left" glamorizing greed and exploitation, and focusing on a narrow set of fashionable social issues to support, while ignoring the plights of most people.
This began before "dialogue" "on both sides" devolved into scoring points against the enemy team. Now --especially with the overt rise of the fascist right (and a lot of ears-covering cancel culture on the left), and other intellectual dumbing-down of the citizenry (partly created by techbros) -- it will be much harder to find sympathy, and to reconcile.
But I suppose one of the first steps is for people on "sides" to start understanding the other, including by reading some of these stories about the experiences of others.
This is particularly why I am a registered independent. The Democratic Party seems intent on shooting themselves in the foot by focusing on cultural issues that only alienate rural voters, even if they are important.
I think that’s why Sanders and Mamdani have found success - they focus on kitchen table issues, and don’t let themselves get caught in culture war crap that just pisses everyone off.
I don't understand this argument. The Democrats have plenty of non-cultural issues. The current government shutdown is focused on health care financing. Democrats have long campaigned on raising the minimum wage.
Climate change isn't supposed to be a cultural issue. It's a question of science, and that's the problem. Every area where Republicans disagree with Democrats is defined to be a "cultural issue".
Democrats do have cultural issues, but so do Republicans. For some reason only Democrats get the blame for it.
> As a liberal-progressive with this background, I've had a mix of pride and concern, over the years, about how my current socioeconomic peers have supported some good causes, but also let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus.
How can you live through Reagan and can say this with a straight face? I remember 25% unemployment rates (see: Johnstown, PA). I remember Reagan specifically breaking the unions which were the only bulwark against getting ground to dust. Reagan threw the Rust belt under the bus, let the companies loot the pension systems, and transferred vast amounts of money into defense contractors on the West Coast.
I also remember the equivalent of MAGA from back then cheering while this happened. Thisisnotnew. The "I'm okay being miserable as long as you're more miserable" crowd has always had a strong showing in this country.
This was also not US specific. Things seemed to be even worse under Thatcher in the UK.
Did the Democrats make anything better? No. The unions screamed about NAFTA (signed by Clinton, but started back with Reagan ... see a trend?), but nobody listened.
However, where is the accountability for Republicans and the policies they voted for? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, but the memory hole isn't new either (dates to 2004):
Which is related to why I said "my current socioeconomic peers [...] let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus" with a straight face.
> How can you live through Reagan and can say this with a straight face?
I don't understand the relevance.
Also, as a kid, I wasn't aware of what was going on during the Reagan years.
Which is another reason why we should be reading about the experiences of people who are not us.
> "Remembering Reagan" by Kirk Anderson:
That's a great comic. And probably we should understand how the support for Reagan happened, and how other personalities seized power, so that maybe we can prevent it from happening again and again.
>The "I'm okay being miserable as long as you're more miserable" crowd has always had a strong showing in this country.
If the choices are "I am miserable whilst my enemies are happy" and "I am miserable whilst my enemies are even more miserable", I know what I would choose.
> If the choices are "I am miserable whilst my enemies are happy" and "I am miserable whilst my enemies are even more miserable", I know what I would choose.
THOSE ARE NOT ALL THE DAMN CHOICES!
How about we try: "make everybody less miserable". Could we please try voting for that? Maybe?
And who the fuck are your "enemies"? The poor people down the street? The poor people in the rural areas? The poor people in the cities? What the hell did they do to YOU, PERSONALLY to warrant being your "enemy"?
Casually flinging vague accusations of fascism or of having sympathies with a particular historical socialist workers party contribute zero to the sides understanding one another. Words have meanings. Which specific people are forwarding which specific fascist positions?
I see a significant asymmetry in the sides’ understandings of one another. The right are typically able to articulate the left’s views reasonably well, but the left operates with caricatures — the aforementioned irresponsible accusations included.
We’re barely a month past Charlie Kirk being gunned down in cold blood on a college campus, and not a hit carried out by any sort of right winger. The piece’s handwringing over radicalization on the right comes across as the left failing to understand the other side and refusing to look in a mirror. Radicalization on the left is an enormous problem.
I don't understand how anybody can say this when Trump is the leader of the GOP. When Trump called Harris a "socialist lunatic" and a communist was that articulating the left reasonably well? Is Trump calling Biden "Sleepy joe" not a caricature?
If you doubt how effective surveillance capitalism is at stochastic mind control,
look no further than the weaponization of ignorance in places like this.
All that is required is voting not according to manufactured cultural issues, but in accord with widely shared values and common interests.
We can have and used to have a capitalism which self-moderated, and with sufficient surplus as in the post-WWII years, gains were widely shared.
Society wasn't perfect but shit was moving in the right direction.
Then came Reagan, deregulation, and the decades-long project by the right of fomenting ignorance and maintaining it through unchecked propoganda.
Today, under surveillance capitalism, all the tools are in place to continue driving ignorance and weaponizing it against those responsible for the loss of prosperity, opportunity, social welfare net, and common infrastructure, that were considered the definition of the American Dream.
People have been made ignorant, encourage to be righteous, made fearful and angry, and it's worked.
Bw, the reason Meta can pay so well is that it's been uniquely successful in accelerating and profiteering off this dystopian nightmare. Don't kid yourself if you work there what you're contributing to.
One of the many troubling aspects is that MAGA policies are only making it worse for these voters. Where do they turn when tariffs lead to inflation, tax cuts for the wealthy generate even more debt, and the economy goes south as immigrant workers get deported (or flee)?
This is already happening, and don't forget the government shutdown which will cause these folks to lose a lot of much needed benefits, all while Trump is tearing down the White House to build his now $300MM ballroom, all while house Republicans refuse to go to work while still collecting a paycheck. One thing is clear, Republicans, maga or not, hold all levels of power federally and it is clear that they are going out of their way to leave working Americans behind.
There are a elections coming up in a few weeks, maybe we'll get an idea of where the wind is blowing, especially in NJ and VA.
> In her new book, Beth Macy returns to her home town of Urbana, Ohio, using it as a ground zero for understanding right-wing radicalization.
https://archive.ph/eUs98
Urbana isn't even that dead for a small town. It's a county seat. 11,000 people. Still has a high school. Had a university until 2000. There's some industry left.
The big milestones in the death of a town are when the high school closes, and, finally, when the post office closes.
Last one to leave Mansfield turn off the carrousel.
I think stories like these are important for comfortable blue state liberals to read, for awareness and moving forward.
Coming from a non-wealthy, very religious, partly-conservative upbringing, I turned out to identify as very liberal-progressive. (My parents grew up in rural areas, my mom had a huge wood Reagan campaign sign in our yard, they were big on responsibility, and we weren't allowed to ever miss a single blessed Sunday of church nor religious extracurricular. Yet they were also epitomes of Christian charity, kept us in the city even when my dad's job tried to relocate him, and switched us to a noteworthy progressive church parish.)
As a liberal-progressive with this background, I've had a mix of pride and concern, over the years, about how my current socioeconomic peers have supported some good causes, but also let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus.
There's some truth to the stereotype of the techbro "left" glamorizing greed and exploitation, and focusing on a narrow set of fashionable social issues to support, while ignoring the plights of most people.
This began before "dialogue" "on both sides" devolved into scoring points against the enemy team. Now --especially with the overt rise of the fascist right (and a lot of ears-covering cancel culture on the left), and other intellectual dumbing-down of the citizenry (partly created by techbros) -- it will be much harder to find sympathy, and to reconcile.
But I suppose one of the first steps is for people on "sides" to start understanding the other, including by reading some of these stories about the experiences of others.
This is particularly why I am a registered independent. The Democratic Party seems intent on shooting themselves in the foot by focusing on cultural issues that only alienate rural voters, even if they are important.
I think that’s why Sanders and Mamdani have found success - they focus on kitchen table issues, and don’t let themselves get caught in culture war crap that just pisses everyone off.
I don't understand this argument. The Democrats have plenty of non-cultural issues. The current government shutdown is focused on health care financing. Democrats have long campaigned on raising the minimum wage.
Climate change isn't supposed to be a cultural issue. It's a question of science, and that's the problem. Every area where Republicans disagree with Democrats is defined to be a "cultural issue".
Democrats do have cultural issues, but so do Republicans. For some reason only Democrats get the blame for it.
> As a liberal-progressive with this background, I've had a mix of pride and concern, over the years, about how my current socioeconomic peers have supported some good causes, but also let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus.
How can you live through Reagan and can say this with a straight face? I remember 25% unemployment rates (see: Johnstown, PA). I remember Reagan specifically breaking the unions which were the only bulwark against getting ground to dust. Reagan threw the Rust belt under the bus, let the companies loot the pension systems, and transferred vast amounts of money into defense contractors on the West Coast.
I also remember the equivalent of MAGA from back then cheering while this happened. This is not new. The "I'm okay being miserable as long as you're more miserable" crowd has always had a strong showing in this country.
This was also not US specific. Things seemed to be even worse under Thatcher in the UK.
Did the Democrats make anything better? No. The unions screamed about NAFTA (signed by Clinton, but started back with Reagan ... see a trend?), but nobody listened.
However, where is the accountability for Republicans and the policies they voted for? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, but the memory hole isn't new either (dates to 2004):
"Remembering Reagan" by Kirk Anderson: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg...
> Did the Democrats make anything better? No.
Exactly.
Which is related to why I said "my current socioeconomic peers [...] let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus" with a straight face.
> How can you live through Reagan and can say this with a straight face?
I don't understand the relevance.
Also, as a kid, I wasn't aware of what was going on during the Reagan years.
Which is another reason why we should be reading about the experiences of people who are not us.
> "Remembering Reagan" by Kirk Anderson:
That's a great comic. And probably we should understand how the support for Reagan happened, and how other personalities seized power, so that maybe we can prevent it from happening again and again.
>The "I'm okay being miserable as long as you're more miserable" crowd has always had a strong showing in this country.
If the choices are "I am miserable whilst my enemies are happy" and "I am miserable whilst my enemies are even more miserable", I know what I would choose.
There's a loosely related joke, which might apply a little...
A person discovers a genie in a bottle, and is given 3 wishes, but with the condition that their worst enemy will receive double the wish.
"For my first wish, I would like a billion dollars"
Genie nods. Person is surrounded by stacks of dollars and gold. "Your enemy gets two billion."
"For my second wish, I would like a mansion."
Genie nods. Person is transported to a beautiful mansion. "Done. Your enemy gets two mansions."
"Now beat me half to death."
> If the choices are "I am miserable whilst my enemies are happy" and "I am miserable whilst my enemies are even more miserable", I know what I would choose.
THOSE ARE NOT ALL THE DAMN CHOICES!
How about we try: "make everybody less miserable". Could we please try voting for that? Maybe?
And who the fuck are your "enemies"? The poor people down the street? The poor people in the rural areas? The poor people in the cities? What the hell did they do to YOU, PERSONALLY to warrant being your "enemy"?
Cries in Vonnegut.
Casually flinging vague accusations of fascism or of having sympathies with a particular historical socialist workers party contribute zero to the sides understanding one another. Words have meanings. Which specific people are forwarding which specific fascist positions?
I see a significant asymmetry in the sides’ understandings of one another. The right are typically able to articulate the left’s views reasonably well, but the left operates with caricatures — the aforementioned irresponsible accusations included.
We’re barely a month past Charlie Kirk being gunned down in cold blood on a college campus, and not a hit carried out by any sort of right winger. The piece’s handwringing over radicalization on the right comes across as the left failing to understand the other side and refusing to look in a mirror. Radicalization on the left is an enormous problem.
I don't understand how anybody can say this when Trump is the leader of the GOP. When Trump called Harris a "socialist lunatic" and a communist was that articulating the left reasonably well? Is Trump calling Biden "Sleepy joe" not a caricature?
Is this "Hacker News" or Reddit?
I thought this NYTimes article captured the appeal of Trump, free from the sneering condescension you normally see...
https://archive.li/ytRPi
If you doubt how effective surveillance capitalism is at stochastic mind control,
look no further than the weaponization of ignorance in places like this.
All that is required is voting not according to manufactured cultural issues, but in accord with widely shared values and common interests.
We can have and used to have a capitalism which self-moderated, and with sufficient surplus as in the post-WWII years, gains were widely shared.
Society wasn't perfect but shit was moving in the right direction.
Then came Reagan, deregulation, and the decades-long project by the right of fomenting ignorance and maintaining it through unchecked propoganda.
Today, under surveillance capitalism, all the tools are in place to continue driving ignorance and weaponizing it against those responsible for the loss of prosperity, opportunity, social welfare net, and common infrastructure, that were considered the definition of the American Dream.
People have been made ignorant, encourage to be righteous, made fearful and angry, and it's worked.
Bw, the reason Meta can pay so well is that it's been uniquely successful in accelerating and profiteering off this dystopian nightmare. Don't kid yourself if you work there what you're contributing to.