It is OK to separate yourself from a group when you deeply disagree with their actions, no matter how insignificant it might seem to a different group of people.
However, I am glad this happened. New Linux Ambassadors will step up and this issue will be buried into the alternative social media communities such as Mastodon, never to be heard of again.
I disagree that Framework will lose a meaningful amount of business over this.
I really hope Framework ignores these people. They are not Linux Ambassadors, they are political activists. These people only care about their ideology and anyone who doesn't blindly follow it gets defamed.
I, and I would imagine many, are tired of this sort of binary thinking. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Society can't function like this.
What is their ideology? Being political activists? How?
These are two people stepping down from community position because they don't agree with actions/direction of the project. There is nothing bizarre about that. They posted why they don't agree and that's it.
Society can't function when people aren't allowed to make their own choices.
Why can't they choose political activism? What on earth binds them to a corporate entity and over-rides their agency?
If you want to step up and be an Ambassador, go for it! But if you think they should be compelled to do so, that's an ideological/political point of view of yours and you need to substantiate it.
And what does a "patriarchy" have to do with anything?
People that unironically use that word are generally better ignored. And after reading the linked comment thread they're trying to portrait as problematic... I can only say that framework is better off without them. They're not in a healthy mindset and will inevitably drum up controversy for asinine things, worsening the image of Framework
Western: of or pertaining to the part of the world where the dominant culture is European (most of it colonized)
Patriarchal: of or pertaining to male-dominated society
Narrative: a story we tell ourselves to impart meaning to the world
Technology in itself is not political: the false (see "narrative" above) idea that technology is politically "neutral" and that the mere existence or use of a technology does not in and of itself reinforce domination or oppression
When I protest that LLMs stole the collective creative output of all of humanity and are now trying to sell it back to us to supplant human creative output, or that it is an ecological, or economic, disaster, further consolidating wealth and power in a few narcissistic sociopaths, and defendants reply, "bUt ThE CApAbIlitIEs!!1!"
That’s not a problem with LLMs as a technology. It’s a problem with how LLM companies have been allowed to violate copyright at industrial scale. It’s a political and social problem.
The same indictment can be made about search companies and social media: that they are monetizing others work without compensation.
Or is there something about the tech that requires that it be deployed in this way?
My position is that LLMs trained without proper copyright authorization should not be copyrightable. They should be public domain.
As for the energy use: we either get our energy from polluting sources or we don’t. What we do with it is secondary. If we’re not using it to run AI we’d be using it to get a burrito delivered.
So you identify the problems. I guess they happened out of thin air? The broken copyright has been allowed by someone... someone BAD!
Or maybe the companies broke the law, lobbied as much as possible, broke the law more, then bribed anyone with political power until they got to god emperor himself who said “this is progress”. And everything was just fine.
But that would mean that technology is political issue.
It’s a thought stopping cliche in the form of an ad hominem shotgun whose trigger is tied to the door handle. You can’t disagree with the author’s take on technology or you’re a bigot and probably a misogynist and a fascist.
I hate watching fascism take over, and that’s why I hate this kind of leftist purity culture. It’s a big thing pushing people to the right.
Of course the far right does it too, which pushes people back the other way I guess.
The present day left and right are like having one obnoxious self righteous asshole screaming in each ear. I have never in my life seen the public discourse in worse shape.
I usually stay afar of those 'too political for tech/gaming' stuff as long as no one is harassed (like Hyprland), but Omarchy is a litter box of a distrib, and doesn't deserve any money. I'd even take Ubuntu over it.
100% agree. I am not even sure why would company wanted to support that type of half baked distro that brings nothing... except dhh? Seems like they want him to endorse them so they bribe him by supporting his pet project.
Beyond the disappointment I have in framework for giving my money to someone so clearly off the rails, it's also disappointing to see it wasted on such a poor distribution as well. Omarchy, in isolation, is just a bloated arch install with thrown together scripts, zoom, spotify, and google apps preinstalled. I appreciate that it brought new people into linux but there are countless more polished and creative distributions that would be excellent to see partner with framework instead.
I agree with that sentiment, and I think if framework had been working with several small lower quality distributions to support the overall ecosystem this may not have come across as poorly as it did. Looking at their supported distros they have, officially: Fedora, Ubuntu, Bazzite, and then community: Linux Mint, Arch, Bluefin, and NixOS. Each of these are high quality projects that each fill a niche well and while no longer listed Omarchy stood out as being much less polished than the others.
It is OK to separate yourself from a group when you deeply disagree with their actions, no matter how insignificant it might seem to a different group of people.
However, I am glad this happened. New Linux Ambassadors will step up and this issue will be buried into the alternative social media communities such as Mastodon, never to be heard of again.
I disagree that Framework will lose a meaningful amount of business over this.
I really hope Framework ignores these people. They are not Linux Ambassadors, they are political activists. These people only care about their ideology and anyone who doesn't blindly follow it gets defamed.
I, and I would imagine many, are tired of this sort of binary thinking. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Society can't function like this.
What is their ideology? Being political activists? How?
These are two people stepping down from community position because they don't agree with actions/direction of the project. There is nothing bizarre about that. They posted why they don't agree and that's it.
Society can't function when people aren't allowed to make their own choices.
Why can't they choose political activism? What on earth binds them to a corporate entity and over-rides their agency?
If you want to step up and be an Ambassador, go for it! But if you think they should be compelled to do so, that's an ideological/political point of view of yours and you need to substantiate it.
> blinded by the Western patriarchal narrative that technology in itself is not political
I have no idea what this was supposed to mean.
Is (a given) technology good or bad? Western culture says it's not, that technology is neutral. Others have conflicting opinions.
And what does a "patriarchy" have to do with anything?
People that unironically use that word are generally better ignored. And after reading the linked comment thread they're trying to portrait as problematic... I can only say that framework is better off without them. They're not in a healthy mindset and will inevitably drum up controversy for asinine things, worsening the image of Framework
Let me break it down for you:
Western: of or pertaining to the part of the world where the dominant culture is European (most of it colonized)
Patriarchal: of or pertaining to male-dominated society
Narrative: a story we tell ourselves to impart meaning to the world
Technology in itself is not political: the false (see "narrative" above) idea that technology is politically "neutral" and that the mere existence or use of a technology does not in and of itself reinforce domination or oppression
Allow me to explain through an example:
When I protest that LLMs stole the collective creative output of all of humanity and are now trying to sell it back to us to supplant human creative output, or that it is an ecological, or economic, disaster, further consolidating wealth and power in a few narcissistic sociopaths, and defendants reply, "bUt ThE CApAbIlitIEs!!1!"
That’s not a problem with LLMs as a technology. It’s a problem with how LLM companies have been allowed to violate copyright at industrial scale. It’s a political and social problem.
The same indictment can be made about search companies and social media: that they are monetizing others work without compensation.
Or is there something about the tech that requires that it be deployed in this way?
My position is that LLMs trained without proper copyright authorization should not be copyrightable. They should be public domain.
As for the energy use: we either get our energy from polluting sources or we don’t. What we do with it is secondary. If we’re not using it to run AI we’d be using it to get a burrito delivered.
So you identify the problems. I guess they happened out of thin air? The broken copyright has been allowed by someone... someone BAD!
Or maybe the companies broke the law, lobbied as much as possible, broke the law more, then bribed anyone with political power until they got to god emperor himself who said “this is progress”. And everything was just fine.
But that would mean that technology is political issue.
Uhh… that’s what I said. The problem is political.
The substantial political lobbying arms behind the ai bubble, big oil, and big coal thank you for your service.
It’s a thought stopping cliche in the form of an ad hominem shotgun whose trigger is tied to the door handle. You can’t disagree with the author’s take on technology or you’re a bigot and probably a misogynist and a fascist.
I hate watching fascism take over, and that’s why I hate this kind of leftist purity culture. It’s a big thing pushing people to the right.
Of course the far right does it too, which pushes people back the other way I guess.
The present day left and right are like having one obnoxious self righteous asshole screaming in each ear. I have never in my life seen the public discourse in worse shape.
Every list of 'thought stopping cliche's must also contain 'thought stopping cliche'.
The right wing fascist culture is the left's fault, sure kiddo.
If you like fascism just be proud and say, "I am a fascist."
Who do you think will actually believe you when you say "I hated fascism until the leftists made me like fascism" anyway?
I can’t tell if this is facetious. The world’s gone mad.
I usually stay afar of those 'too political for tech/gaming' stuff as long as no one is harassed (like Hyprland), but Omarchy is a litter box of a distrib, and doesn't deserve any money. I'd even take Ubuntu over it.
100% agree. I am not even sure why would company wanted to support that type of half baked distro that brings nothing... except dhh? Seems like they want him to endorse them so they bribe him by supporting his pet project.
This comment sums up my own feelings towards this concisely :
> This is not a “I do not like this distribution” kind of argument.
> This is a “the people you are sending my money to want me and my friends dead or deported” kind of argument.
from: https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-righ...
Beyond the disappointment I have in framework for giving my money to someone so clearly off the rails, it's also disappointing to see it wasted on such a poor distribution as well. Omarchy, in isolation, is just a bloated arch install with thrown together scripts, zoom, spotify, and google apps preinstalled. I appreciate that it brought new people into linux but there are countless more polished and creative distributions that would be excellent to see partner with framework instead.
They also sponsored other open source projects, which is good for community. A distro is not good doesnt mean it does not deserve sponsorship
I agree with that sentiment, and I think if framework had been working with several small lower quality distributions to support the overall ecosystem this may not have come across as poorly as it did. Looking at their supported distros they have, officially: Fedora, Ubuntu, Bazzite, and then community: Linux Mint, Arch, Bluefin, and NixOS. Each of these are high quality projects that each fill a niche well and while no longer listed Omarchy stood out as being much less polished than the others.
Previous thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45526715
1. Fascists should be fought everywhere and all the time so their ideas never get normalized.
2. Everything we do is political, tech is VERY political, stop daydreaming.
A tolerant society cannot tolerate intolerance lest it gets destroyed by it.
Woke fascism is over.. deal with it
You are not even worth answering, go educate yourself on what fascism means
Good for them. Standing up for ones own morality is what we should all aim for no matter the personal consequences or political side.
Good to know that the woke narrative is collapsing
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I do not have the Framework specific context, but I have seen this[1] post being shared frequently when talking about DHH.
1. https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64
https://community.frame.work/t/framework-supporting-far-righ...
[flagged]
Go do their community job, Framework needs you.
Calling people entitled because they left community job they have every right to leave… isn't that a bit entitled? Don't you think?
Good riddance.
If woke brigades aren't stopped now, they will run and ruin e v e r y t h i n g in their path.
Are the woke brigades in the room with us