They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so.
They’re facing the classic innovator’s dilemma. It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles, and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
VW is the sales leader in EVs in Europe, they don't need to win the future, they are already winning the present.
Also, VW sold half a million EVs in H1 2025, Tesla sold 730k, so even globally they are closer than you think and VW will likely pass Tesla at current growth rates by halfway 2027.
Also, FYI, Europeans haven't been building ICEs for some time. The last (non sports car) serious ICE developed in Europe was the Mercedes Benz OM654 diesel engine.
>It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles
Current VW Models can compete with Tesla on equal footing. By sales VW is the defacto winner of the European EV Market.
>they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
VW has been developing the MEB Platform since a decade. It has not developed a new ICE Platform in that time. How are they culturally "prioritizing" ICE, when they have completely abandoned ICE development on a platform level?
Going back to ICE would be a total disaster for VW, the company is completely all in on electrification.
Why Stellantis? They are in far worse shape than the competition, their strategy of having one car which is available as ICE and EV seems doomed to failure and their ties to the US will greatly weaken them, as the markets seem to diverge rapidly. Developing ICE only for the US with no ability to sell them in Europe seems dubious, at the same time they can not abandon the US or only sell EVs there.
Renault has actually better products than Stellantis and far fewer of the problems.
VW is already the EV leader by sales, Stellantis will follow suit by the end of the decade at top 2.
There are few important reasons:
1. VW and Stellantis combine a huge array of relevant (in EU) brands including (by memory) Jeep, Maserati, Audi, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Lancia, Seat, Cupra, Lancia, Skoda, Volkswagen, Opel, Peugeot, Citroen, Lamborghini.
2. VW and Stellantis have already all the network made of service, parts, dealerships.
3. All markets are different, and as you can imagine European brands know how to build cars for that market.
4. Both companies are gigantic and well diversified across the globe with their supply chains and plenty of deals with Chinese ev and battery makers. Even if the Chinese end up dominating the European market, they will still have to build here and do it in a JV.
I've been eyeing the Touring edition of the Seal 6 DM-i (https://www.byd.com/eu/hybrid-cars/seal-6-dm-i-touring), which supposedly gets up to ~1300KM on one tank. I've test driven it, feels nice and not as plasticky as I thought it would be, but I'm not entirely convinced it'll actually be able to do the distance as marketed. By any chance, have anyone already gotten it themselves and could share their experience, or know someone else who did and know more or less how far they can go?
As someone living in NL, I wish VW made exactly this.
Why?
I know I can bring my car to the workshop nearby and they will be able to procure parts and service it.
As a customer, I want a reliable mainstream PHEV car that doesn’t _need_ over the air updates, unnecessary complexities, subscriptions etc and gives me the confidence that I can use it for the next 10 years with regular maintenance.
Right, seems we want the same thing, is this something you're afraid of if you would buy a BYD, I'm guessing since this is a reply to my comment?
Personally, seems they have workshops all over the country, and as one of the biggest EV brands, it won't be hard to find parts for the mainstream models nor to service it.
AFAIK, the car doesn't require OTA updates, any subscription or similar, or did I miss something went I went through what they actually offer?
WLTP has absolutely nothing to do with real range. It is a totally artificial test scenario, which aims to give comparability and has no connection to any real world ranges.
No, it will not go 1300km, neither will any other vehicle reach its WLTP range during normal usage.
Other reviews on YouTube seems to give it around ~1000km at least, none of them say/indicate they're sponsored, but looking for someone with real experience here. I realize a single benchmark doesn't represent 100% real world usage.
I was answering the question you had about the marketed range. The answer is "no", it will never make 1300km during regular usage.
It is also pointless to ask people about their experience, as the range is extremely dependent on usage habits and location. The experience of other people is worthless unless they closely coincidence with your personal circumstances.
What you should do is compare the 1300km of WLTP range to your current cars WLTP range. That will give you an accurate estimate what 1300km WLTP will mean for you.
All you answered was "Is WLTP representative of real world usage?", which was not a question I asked, I asked: "know someone else who did and know more or less how far they can go?".
Like anyone else, I'm aware that marketing material is difference from reality, which is exactly why I'm asking for other people's experience.
> It is also pointless to ask people about their experience
You know what's more pointless? Answering questions no one asked, that you don't know the answer to, and that aren't aimed at you in the first place. You don't have to answer, you can let others with the knowledge do instead.
we cant get BYD in Canada, yet.
the argument of "unfair" trade practice against China, is cringy now, but crow is still better eating than stareing at an empty plate.
And once in, BYD stuff will be here to stay if it lives up to it's reputation for solid no nonsense reliable transpo, plus they are saying they will build them here, which will trigger a bidding frenzy with the US "reshoring" plants and then trying to strong arm Canadians into buying strait from them, which may be backfiring as Canada is going through unprecidented changes due to the combined effects of an aging ,born in Canada population, and a huge influx of young ambitious english speaking imigrants from everywhere but England/Europe/US.
Another major factor is that China has the most verticaly integrated supply chains, and everybody else is in dissaray playing games ,favorites ,deals!, deals!, deals!, and Japan cant step in as they are at capacity.
That a huge, HUGE, chunk of the younger population cant own a car, and that BYD is doing deals with rental and cab companies, means that those younger people will have there first automotive fun, in a Chinese electric, and will associate the established brands with denied opportunities or worse, opression.
They make good cars, they deserve to sell.
But imho the king of EVs in Europe by the end of the decade are going to be Volkswagen and Stellantis.
No foreign car company really stands a chance in the European market imho (besides Toyota of course).
They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so.
They’re facing the classic innovator’s dilemma. It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles, and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
> They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so
Volkswagen sells the most EVs in Europe. In fact, Volkswagen's EV market share in Europe is currently the highest it's ever been:
https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Q...
Volkswagen owns many brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Cupra, etc.). Their sales are split across many brands and models.
Thanks. I didn’t realize the Volkswagen family of brands was so large.
I was thinking specifically about the VW brand itself.
VW is the sales leader in EVs in Europe, they don't need to win the future, they are already winning the present.
Also, VW sold half a million EVs in H1 2025, Tesla sold 730k, so even globally they are closer than you think and VW will likely pass Tesla at current growth rates by halfway 2027.
Also, FYI, Europeans haven't been building ICEs for some time. The last (non sports car) serious ICE developed in Europe was the Mercedes Benz OM654 diesel engine.
Thanks for the details and corrections!
>It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles
Current VW Models can compete with Tesla on equal footing. By sales VW is the defacto winner of the European EV Market.
>they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
VW has been developing the MEB Platform since a decade. It has not developed a new ICE Platform in that time. How are they culturally "prioritizing" ICE, when they have completely abandoned ICE development on a platform level?
Going back to ICE would be a total disaster for VW, the company is completely all in on electrification.
> and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
Some people still need a reason to carry a 1 Ton battery with them all the time. /s
Why Stellantis? They are in far worse shape than the competition, their strategy of having one car which is available as ICE and EV seems doomed to failure and their ties to the US will greatly weaken them, as the markets seem to diverge rapidly. Developing ICE only for the US with no ability to sell them in Europe seems dubious, at the same time they can not abandon the US or only sell EVs there.
Renault has actually better products than Stellantis and far fewer of the problems.
Care to expand on why VW and Stellantis are going to dominate the EV market?
VW is already the EV leader by sales, Stellantis will follow suit by the end of the decade at top 2.
There are few important reasons:
1. VW and Stellantis combine a huge array of relevant (in EU) brands including (by memory) Jeep, Maserati, Audi, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Lancia, Seat, Cupra, Lancia, Skoda, Volkswagen, Opel, Peugeot, Citroen, Lamborghini.
2. VW and Stellantis have already all the network made of service, parts, dealerships.
3. All markets are different, and as you can imagine European brands know how to build cars for that market.
4. Both companies are gigantic and well diversified across the globe with their supply chains and plenty of deals with Chinese ev and battery makers. Even if the Chinese end up dominating the European market, they will still have to build here and do it in a JV.
The government will keep changing the rules until VW wins. Using tariffs, price floors, subsidies, whatever it takes.
European and national politics have been anything but kind to European automakers for quite some time.
> But imho the king of EVs in Europe by the end of the decade are going to be Volkswagen and Stellantis.
If they manage to fix their SW bugs, at a competitive price, maybe.
I've been eyeing the Touring edition of the Seal 6 DM-i (https://www.byd.com/eu/hybrid-cars/seal-6-dm-i-touring), which supposedly gets up to ~1300KM on one tank. I've test driven it, feels nice and not as plasticky as I thought it would be, but I'm not entirely convinced it'll actually be able to do the distance as marketed. By any chance, have anyone already gotten it themselves and could share their experience, or know someone else who did and know more or less how far they can go?
As someone living in NL, I wish VW made exactly this.
Why?
I know I can bring my car to the workshop nearby and they will be able to procure parts and service it.
As a customer, I want a reliable mainstream PHEV car that doesn’t _need_ over the air updates, unnecessary complexities, subscriptions etc and gives me the confidence that I can use it for the next 10 years with regular maintenance.
Right, seems we want the same thing, is this something you're afraid of if you would buy a BYD, I'm guessing since this is a reply to my comment?
Personally, seems they have workshops all over the country, and as one of the biggest EV brands, it won't be hard to find parts for the mainstream models nor to service it.
AFAIK, the car doesn't require OTA updates, any subscription or similar, or did I miss something went I went through what they actually offer?
WLTP has absolutely nothing to do with real range. It is a totally artificial test scenario, which aims to give comparability and has no connection to any real world ranges.
No, it will not go 1300km, neither will any other vehicle reach its WLTP range during normal usage.
Other reviews on YouTube seems to give it around ~1000km at least, none of them say/indicate they're sponsored, but looking for someone with real experience here. I realize a single benchmark doesn't represent 100% real world usage.
I was answering the question you had about the marketed range. The answer is "no", it will never make 1300km during regular usage.
It is also pointless to ask people about their experience, as the range is extremely dependent on usage habits and location. The experience of other people is worthless unless they closely coincidence with your personal circumstances.
What you should do is compare the 1300km of WLTP range to your current cars WLTP range. That will give you an accurate estimate what 1300km WLTP will mean for you.
All you answered was "Is WLTP representative of real world usage?", which was not a question I asked, I asked: "know someone else who did and know more or less how far they can go?".
Like anyone else, I'm aware that marketing material is difference from reality, which is exactly why I'm asking for other people's experience.
> It is also pointless to ask people about their experience
You know what's more pointless? Answering questions no one asked, that you don't know the answer to, and that aren't aimed at you in the first place. You don't have to answer, you can let others with the knowledge do instead.
Tesla is cooked.
we cant get BYD in Canada, yet. the argument of "unfair" trade practice against China, is cringy now, but crow is still better eating than stareing at an empty plate. And once in, BYD stuff will be here to stay if it lives up to it's reputation for solid no nonsense reliable transpo, plus they are saying they will build them here, which will trigger a bidding frenzy with the US "reshoring" plants and then trying to strong arm Canadians into buying strait from them, which may be backfiring as Canada is going through unprecidented changes due to the combined effects of an aging ,born in Canada population, and a huge influx of young ambitious english speaking imigrants from everywhere but England/Europe/US. Another major factor is that China has the most verticaly integrated supply chains, and everybody else is in dissaray playing games ,favorites ,deals!, deals!, deals!, and Japan cant step in as they are at capacity. That a huge, HUGE, chunk of the younger population cant own a car, and that BYD is doing deals with rental and cab companies, means that those younger people will have there first automotive fun, in a Chinese electric, and will associate the established brands with denied opportunities or worse, opression.
Alternative headline: European car market to be taken over by BYD in near future.