Some (mostly American?) people know Mahjong as a solitaire game [1] that they likely have played on their phone or Windows PC/Mac.
This article is talking about the (arguably less known?) 4-player competitive game [2], and assumes you already know the difference (which some may not).
I've known about Mahjong for decades but TIL it has many similarities to a game I play regularly, Rummykub. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummikub describes it as combining elements of the card game rummy and Mahjong.
In China it turns out there are lots of rule sets. The city I'm currently living in (Changsha) has it's own ruleset for example, with less tiles than these examples.
mahjong rulesets are wild. I play Japanese mahjong, and the difference between online and a mahjong parlor is quite different, making it interesting to see what people optimize for in those different settings
I think mahjong is probably "house rules the game" though. Pretty sure most mahjong hands probably just were a result of some guy being like "hey this hand looks like it should be scored man".
It's similar to dominos then - every region and cultural/ethnic group has their own variant, and every family has their own house rules. Or craps! I was so confused my first time playing in a casino after learning to play in the streets.
No, south sits to the right of east, west to the right of south, and north to the right of west.
All chinese card games go counter-clockwise. And the compass directions have a standard order, from 1-4: ESWN. Which is why the seat order is not the same as it would be on a compass.
In the Kaiji manga, the “Minefield Mahjong” arc uses a variation of Japanese Mahjong. It can be read without knowing the general rules (as I did), but I guess they make some of the scenes more understandable and/or impactful. Maybe I’ll give it a reread after checking this out.
Yes, he is! (Which explains other of his mangas, Akagi):
> He has been playing mahjong since junior high school days, and admitted that though he has rarely lost a game when he was in school, his current level of ability is average. According to him, he has "tournament luck" and has even won mahjong tournaments between mahjong manga artists. He has also participated in professional mahjong matches. He played about two games against Akagi and Kaiji's voice actor Masato Hagiwara, who is known as one of the best mahjong players in the entertainment industry, and made Hagiwara say "I don't think I can beat him."
There are so many different variations of the rules, especially scoring. Scoring can vary even from family to family.
We've been learning for a few years now and still ignore things like prevailing winds and I don't remember what else off the top of my head. Basically we have a document of our own rules and we add to it as we get more advanced. Eventually we'll play with the winds and seasons and the goal is Hong Kong scoring.
just played with an American friend who was learning for the first time yesterday. The winds are by far the most annoying part. Not only is the order of them different than what most people are used to (ESWN vs NESW) but the points you get for each depend on what wind you are and this is on top of having to memorize the Chinese characters (although of course some sets number them). Great game but so many little special cases that can make it intimidating to learn.
Don't even get me started on scoring when you are gambling (although the dynamics of who pays who and how much is interesting)
Base point is like the minimum payout. All players agree upon a minimum payout (base point) ahead of time. E.g. $10 as the minimum for the first fan. A fan literally means doubling. A 4 fan win means the payout is $10x2x2x2=$80 from each losing party. It can go up very quickly.
We play with a base point being a dime or a quarter. Note also that the function from fan to points is subject to house rules, it's not always p(f) = 2^f (I've seen rules for example that start to "level off" the payout at higher fan values).
I'd add the note that the whole strategy of mahjong really only gets interesting when you play repeated hands (a full game has at least 16 hands, with each player acting as the dealer once per prevailing wind) and when you're gambling (or otherwise tracking points). Most house rules also enforce a minimum fan value for a winning hand, banning the "chicken hand" which wins but scores no points. We play with a 2 fan minimum. If you just play for mahjong (i.e. a a hand that "wins" the round regardless of score), the game is a pretty uninteresting game of luck, and you're not incentivized to gun for the higher scoring hands.
Though I get the sense that, typically the easiest way to learn how to play a game, is to walk through actually playing the game. Listing out a bunch of facts about how the game works is mostly just confusing for a newcomer - the brain doesn't retain that kind of information well.
The example of this I often give is Magic: The Gathering. Very easy to learn how to play just by playing it with someone who knows. Very difficult to learn how to play if you start with a reference guide on how casting and the stack and priority and resolution works.
Any time someone starts explaining a new game to me I stop them and tell them to just start the game and walk me through it as we play. If I’m teaching someone a card game we’ll play open hand until they get it then start over. It’s kind of like a physical activity like riding a bike, you just gotta do it, not read about it.
Question for HN: I've seen more and more of these interactive explainers popping up recently. Given these are far more approachable to build due to LLM capabilities (e.g. Claude artifacts, open generative UI, etc.), what is the community reaction around having a product tailored for creating and distributing these experiences?
I've been experimenting over the past 6 months with interactive educational materials and curious on the community sentiment around this topic.
Really well made website. I played a few times in Shenzhen (slightly different rules), but it's difficult to find players willing to accommodate a beginner because Mahjong players typically play really fast (I'd say on average <1s per turn).
I think you’re thinking of American mahjong. Which I can’t understand for the life of me how it’s gotten so popular. The ratio of luck to skill is completely upside down
Some resources if you want to learn and player riichi, the japenese variant
TLDR: Download both Mahjong Soul and Kemono and play a lot. If you don't understand something then look up on the riichi wiki or ask the mahjong reddit or the Mahjong Soul Discord.
It's much much easier to learn riichi through a game then buying a set and sit down playing. Especially if it's 4 brand new players together.
Mind you riichi/mahjong doesn't have rules like chess which are set in stone. There are local rules, competitions differ, video games play differently. The core rules are the same but there are many many optional rules. A lot of confusion comes from this.
That being said the riichi wiki is pretty good and has info about basically everything https://riichi.wiki/Main_Page
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mahjong/ is incredibly helpful for every ruleset not just riichi if you have questions like why I'm not winning (99 out of 100 times: no yaku) or which set to buy etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlnC2rgIPrc This video if you want to play IRL. How to setup the table, the tiles, when to draw from where. Video games has the problem of "hiding" certain elements of the gameplay like how to draw from the dead wall after a kan and replenishing it.
If you play IRL then the Riichi compass that you can use both as a quick calculator and as the name implies a compass: you put down in the middle on a phone/tablet, set up a new game and after that you use it as an automatic score calculator https://riichi.onecomp.one/
- https://mahjongsoul.game.yo-star.com/ Mahjong Soul which is a gacha game but that doesn't affect the gameplay, pure cosmetic. It has a decent tutorial, very good QoL features helping the gameplay, and a big playerbase for PvP for every rank and custom modes. You can also play 3 player riichi (sanma) and there are custom lobbies where you can play with friends and setup your own rules (I actually learned here with people on a Discord call)
- https://www.mahjong-jp.com/ Riichi City which is the newer and main competitior of Mahjong Soul. I haven't played that much here but some people prefer this but there aren't that many differences either.
- https://tenhou.net/ (https://riichi.wiki/Tenhou.net) which is popular in Japan. It has less players than Mahjong Soul but some people say at higher ranks there are better gameplay, more skillful players. ymmv if you watch japanese streamers or pros they usually both play Tenhou and Mahjong Soul and reaching the top is a lot of time so doesn't really affect new players.
- https://cyberdog.ca/kemono-mahjong/ Kemono is not the best game but it has 2 very big pros: arguably the best tutorial how to play. And it has offline mode against AI characters. So if you mostly play on phone and want to play riichi while hiking in the Himalayas then Kemono is probably the best choice. The non-traditonal portrait mode on phone is different compared to other clients
- https://www.amatsukimahjong.com/en/ Has to mention this because it’s a good one where you can play multiple rulesets easily. HK, Taiwan, Riichi
Some (mostly American?) people know Mahjong as a solitaire game [1] that they likely have played on their phone or Windows PC/Mac.
This article is talking about the (arguably less known?) 4-player competitive game [2], and assumes you already know the difference (which some may not).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahjong_solitaire
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahjong
Probably it’s less popular in America, but it’s huge in Asia, so I doubt the solitaire version is more well known globally
Yes, but most of HN is outside Asia, so I feel the clarification is helpful here.
Solitaire version should be pretty well known due to the computer game.
Less known to the Western centric HN crowd, maybe.
I've known about Mahjong for decades but TIL it has many similarities to a game I play regularly, Rummykub. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummikub describes it as combining elements of the card game rummy and Mahjong.
This is a really nice website!
In China it turns out there are lots of rule sets. The city I'm currently living in (Changsha) has it's own ruleset for example, with less tiles than these examples.
mahjong rulesets are wild. I play Japanese mahjong, and the difference between online and a mahjong parlor is quite different, making it interesting to see what people optimize for in those different settings
I think mahjong is probably "house rules the game" though. Pretty sure most mahjong hands probably just were a result of some guy being like "hey this hand looks like it should be scored man".
It's similar to dominos then - every region and cultural/ethnic group has their own variant, and every family has their own house rules. Or craps! I was so confused my first time playing in a casino after learning to play in the streets.
can someone explain this bit to me:
Break the wall
Whose wall?
Count the total counter-clockwise starting from the dealer (East = 1).
東 East 1 · 5 · 9
南 South 2 · 6 · 10
西 West 3 · 7 · 11
北 North 4 · 8 · 12
East -> South -> West -> North - is that not clockwise? What am I missing?
No, south sits to the right of east, west to the right of south, and north to the right of west.
All chinese card games go counter-clockwise. And the compass directions have a standard order, from 1-4: ESWN. Which is why the seat order is not the same as it would be on a compass.
I haven't played in years, and this was an excellent refresher.
OP, can you please include Beijing rules?
In the Kaiji manga, the “Minefield Mahjong” arc uses a variation of Japanese Mahjong. It can be read without knowing the general rules (as I did), but I guess they make some of the scenes more understandable and/or impactful. Maybe I’ll give it a reread after checking this out.
The kaiji author is a massive riichi fanatic if I recall correctly.
Yes, he is! (Which explains other of his mangas, Akagi):
> He has been playing mahjong since junior high school days, and admitted that though he has rarely lost a game when he was in school, his current level of ability is average. According to him, he has "tournament luck" and has even won mahjong tournaments between mahjong manga artists. He has also participated in professional mahjong matches. He played about two games against Akagi and Kaiji's voice actor Masato Hagiwara, who is known as one of the best mahjong players in the entertainment industry, and made Hagiwara say "I don't think I can beat him."
―https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobuyuki_Fukumoto
There are so many different variations of the rules, especially scoring. Scoring can vary even from family to family.
We've been learning for a few years now and still ignore things like prevailing winds and I don't remember what else off the top of my head. Basically we have a document of our own rules and we add to it as we get more advanced. Eventually we'll play with the winds and seasons and the goal is Hong Kong scoring.
just played with an American friend who was learning for the first time yesterday. The winds are by far the most annoying part. Not only is the order of them different than what most people are used to (ESWN vs NESW) but the points you get for each depend on what wind you are and this is on top of having to memorize the Chinese characters (although of course some sets number them). Great game but so many little special cases that can make it intimidating to learn.
Don't even get me started on scoring when you are gambling (although the dynamics of who pays who and how much is interesting)
> Every fan doubles your base points
Did I miss it, or are the "base points" never explained?
Base point is like the minimum payout. All players agree upon a minimum payout (base point) ahead of time. E.g. $10 as the minimum for the first fan. A fan literally means doubling. A 4 fan win means the payout is $10x2x2x2=$80 from each losing party. It can go up very quickly.
We play with a base point being a dime or a quarter. Note also that the function from fan to points is subject to house rules, it's not always p(f) = 2^f (I've seen rules for example that start to "level off" the payout at higher fan values).
I'd add the note that the whole strategy of mahjong really only gets interesting when you play repeated hands (a full game has at least 16 hands, with each player acting as the dealer once per prevailing wind) and when you're gambling (or otherwise tracking points). Most house rules also enforce a minimum fan value for a winning hand, banning the "chicken hand" which wins but scores no points. We play with a 2 fan minimum. If you just play for mahjong (i.e. a a hand that "wins" the round regardless of score), the game is a pretty uninteresting game of luck, and you're not incentivized to gun for the higher scoring hands.
Really lovely designed website.
Though I get the sense that, typically the easiest way to learn how to play a game, is to walk through actually playing the game. Listing out a bunch of facts about how the game works is mostly just confusing for a newcomer - the brain doesn't retain that kind of information well.
The example of this I often give is Magic: The Gathering. Very easy to learn how to play just by playing it with someone who knows. Very difficult to learn how to play if you start with a reference guide on how casting and the stack and priority and resolution works.
Any time someone starts explaining a new game to me I stop them and tell them to just start the game and walk me through it as we play. If I’m teaching someone a card game we’ll play open hand until they get it then start over. It’s kind of like a physical activity like riding a bike, you just gotta do it, not read about it.
Love it!
Question for HN: I've seen more and more of these interactive explainers popping up recently. Given these are far more approachable to build due to LLM capabilities (e.g. Claude artifacts, open generative UI, etc.), what is the community reaction around having a product tailored for creating and distributing these experiences?
I've been experimenting over the past 6 months with interactive educational materials and curious on the community sentiment around this topic.
Pretty cool site, we were trying to figure out the scoring system the other day. I don‘t think the replay button is needed though
Really well made website. I played a few times in Shenzhen (slightly different rules), but it's difficult to find players willing to accommodate a beginner because Mahjong players typically play really fast (I'd say on average <1s per turn).
One important note I didn’t see here:
- For league play, the scoring hands change every year!
I think you’re thinking of American mahjong. Which I can’t understand for the life of me how it’s gotten so popular. The ratio of luck to skill is completely upside down
Doesn’t that only apply to American style?
Thank you for this. Playing with my in-laws I’m always completely baffled by the scoring!
I can finally learn this game!!!
finally, a decent guide for proper Mahjong!
Some resources if you want to learn and player riichi, the japenese variant
TLDR: Download both Mahjong Soul and Kemono and play a lot. If you don't understand something then look up on the riichi wiki or ask the mahjong reddit or the Mahjong Soul Discord.
It's much much easier to learn riichi through a game then buying a set and sit down playing. Especially if it's 4 brand new players together.
Mind you riichi/mahjong doesn't have rules like chess which are set in stone. There are local rules, competitions differ, video games play differently. The core rules are the same but there are many many optional rules. A lot of confusion comes from this.
This is for example the comparison chart of popular riichi rulesets https://riichi.wiki/Comparison_of_popular_rulesets
That being said the riichi wiki is pretty good and has info about basically everything https://riichi.wiki/Main_Page
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mahjong/ is incredibly helpful for every ruleset not just riichi if you have questions like why I'm not winning (99 out of 100 times: no yaku) or which set to buy etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlnC2rgIPrc This video if you want to play IRL. How to setup the table, the tiles, when to draw from where. Video games has the problem of "hiding" certain elements of the gameplay like how to draw from the dead wall after a kan and replenishing it.
This yaku, scoring, and teaching sheet for IRL play https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18hxO5DMVAqxSNV9VvpjA...
If you play IRL then the Riichi compass that you can use both as a quick calculator and as the name implies a compass: you put down in the middle on a phone/tablet, set up a new game and after that you use it as an automatic score calculator https://riichi.onecomp.one/
https://discord.com/invite/mahjongsoul if you have instant questions and need help
The riichi book is the next step once you understand the game and wants to learn strategies https://dainachiba.github.io/RiichiBooks/
As for where to play digitally:
- https://mahjongsoul.game.yo-star.com/ Mahjong Soul which is a gacha game but that doesn't affect the gameplay, pure cosmetic. It has a decent tutorial, very good QoL features helping the gameplay, and a big playerbase for PvP for every rank and custom modes. You can also play 3 player riichi (sanma) and there are custom lobbies where you can play with friends and setup your own rules (I actually learned here with people on a Discord call)
- https://www.mahjong-jp.com/ Riichi City which is the newer and main competitior of Mahjong Soul. I haven't played that much here but some people prefer this but there aren't that many differences either.
- https://tenhou.net/ (https://riichi.wiki/Tenhou.net) which is popular in Japan. It has less players than Mahjong Soul but some people say at higher ranks there are better gameplay, more skillful players. ymmv if you watch japanese streamers or pros they usually both play Tenhou and Mahjong Soul and reaching the top is a lot of time so doesn't really affect new players.
- https://cyberdog.ca/kemono-mahjong/ Kemono is not the best game but it has 2 very big pros: arguably the best tutorial how to play. And it has offline mode against AI characters. So if you mostly play on phone and want to play riichi while hiking in the Himalayas then Kemono is probably the best choice. The non-traditonal portrait mode on phone is different compared to other clients
- https://www.amatsukimahjong.com/en/ Has to mention this because it’s a good one where you can play multiple rulesets easily. HK, Taiwan, Riichi