I’m not really sure why someone would hire Ive to design a car. I don’t know much about him, but to me he’s mostly known for designing Apple products, not luxury vehicles.
Hiring someone because of their name recognition in a role they aren’t suited for would of course backfire.
(Again, maybe he does have some prior work that means he’s suited for the job and I’m just unaware)
Looking at the Ferrari and it's missing that certain look, styling, and tradition Ferrari's have. This design looks like a nice modern electric car, but doesn't have the wow of a Ferrari.
In my small circle of car friends, the new Ferrari is being called the "Magic mouse" of ferraris and posting memes of the car upside down with the cable plugged in at the bottom.
I was hoping for an SF90 meets Nevera when they were talking about it originally :(
But that is entirely unoriginal and derivative, compared to a designer wanting to make a mark.
I posit that a mouse that needs to be on its back to be charged, thus rendering it completely useless during that time, to be much much much worse than a round mouse with no immediate indication which way is forward...
It takes a half hour to get months of charge back, so it’s not a functional problem. I think you wanted to have a wireless mouse with a port in the back so it feels like a wired mouse when you want it to. That would have been cool but I suspect a standard usb cable wouldn’t be rated for being continually contorted and wouldn’t be as pleasant as a wired mouse wire designed for that, so you’d need a special wire and it was just not going to work.
The hiring brand is Ferrari. Its entire business is predicated on a Paris-Hilton-style effect, whereby it is famous for being famous. Tactics like hiring Jony Ive are a common way to keep this virtuous cycle afloat. It's not really about design, it's about PR/hype/reputation/branding.
imo the exterior looks like a cartoon BYD and should be killed with fire.
however while folks are negative on Ive for the car shape, he only designed the interiors not the car body, and the interiors are kinda lovely car interior design:
-no touchscreen (dangerous while driving)
-clicky, intuitive tactile switches and buttons
-thoughtful use of color (display base color changes based on driving mode)
I mean even just looking at those air conditioning vents (rotate vent to open/close) is classive Ive: intuitive but sophisticated.
I hope more manufacturers copy these new/old patterns on the interiors.
> In a genius move, they hired design agency LoveFrom to handle the exterior and interior execution: that’s headed by former Apple chief design officer, Sir Jonathan Ive.
I don't think this looks bad but I think this will look dated very fast. The exterior looks like a continuation of the last 20 years of car designs in general, not an update to Ferrari design. An exception is the rear-end which is a good take on the F40's rear end. A larger nod to older designs, like the modern Dodge Challenger or Ford Bronco would be nice to see. I'm sure if you talk to Jony Ive he will explain the Ferrari inspiration behind each subtle curve but it is not obviously a Ferrari at a glance.
On the other hand, it's a five-seater and an attempt to make it look more like Ferrari's iconic cars could also end badly.
The interior and interfaces look great. Even if the roundness of interior is not your cup of tea, figuring out the right balance between tactile buttons and touchscreen is really important and they might have nailed it.
What prevents car manufacturers from taking a normal-looking body style and electrifying it? Seems popular with the aftermarket mods. Every hybrid and EV I can think of looks like a suppository.
Edit: I asked AI the same question and it reminded me that BMW’s i4, Camry Hybrid, Porsche Taycan, Ferrari 296 GTB (hybrid), Corvette E-Ray, F150 Lightning, and Genesis Electrified G80 all look fairly similar to standard ICE vehicles.
> What prevents car manufacturers from taking a normal-looking body style and electrifying it? Seems popular with the aftermarket mods. Every hybrid and EV I can think of looks like a suppository.
The fact that even though an ICE engine is only 35% efficient, the energy density of fuel is still much higher than gas. Gasoline is 50x more energy-dense than an average EV lithium battery (taking a Tesla Model 3 as example). That's why you can fuel 9L of gasoline or charge and carry around ~500kg of batteries for the same range.
So in order to make the car efficient and travel 500km you have to bend the shape to be as aerodynamic as possible. That's where retractile/flush handles also come from, it wasn't just a gimmick or wow-factor on the Model S when it launched. It's still like that years later on all models because it still makes the car more efficient.
The research and push for higher densities is finally starting to pay off, so in time less efficient but more appealing/classic designs may start to emerge again, because you're less constrained by how much energy you can carry per same weight/volume.
Ironically, I think your question is the reason it’s not done more often, or at least some brands make “very obvious” EV’s: because for some customers, they want people to know they’re different (and memorable) from the ICE vehicles.
For the longest time ICE car makers build cars that screamed "electric". They mostly where behind expectations. At that time the by far most successful EV brand was Tesla with the USP that their cars looked like cars, while at the time the electric BMW where the most ugly cars i have ever seen.
Now this has reversed. The current EVs from VW, Mercedes and BMW, Renault, Dacia, Fiat all look normal. The BMW iX3 has a long waiting list, VWs boring ID-cars are doing better than ever. Tesla has release the Cybertruck that screams "electric" and is a sales disaster.
"Custumers want EVs to look like EVs" was made up by the marketing departments, while the opposite seems to be correct.
My personal conspiracy theory is that the ICE divisions wanted to prevent EVs cannibalizing their market and they pushed for ugliness or "differentiation".
I love the look of old cars, but there's a lot of modern safety advances sacrificed with driving around in a classic. Obvious would be modern seat belts and air bags. Less obvious are crumple zones. There's plenty of other things I'm sure that have been added in modern cars. A modern EV with the body of a 1969 Corvette Stingray or 1969 Camaro would be amazing. I'm talking modern interior materials for sound dampening and comfort like updated ACs not modern touch screen nonsense.
The safety features of modern cars are more like an insurance policy where you don't think about it until you actually need it. I replaced a 2007 Corolla with a 2015 one where after just a few months of owning the car I was in a t-bone accident on the driver side. The 2015 had side impact curtains that really saved me that I cannot imagine what would have happened in the 2007 model. I walked away from that with just a couple of scrapes.
The plenty of people comment also reminds me of the sayings about airliners. It's not that there's a lot of accidents, but when they do happen, there tends to be higher percentage of fatalities.
While there are some interesting design choices for things like the lights and wheels (across all Hyundai models, IMHO) the Hyundai EV9 is a pretty normal looking SUV.
Definitely some Toyota Prius vibes. They certainly should take some design risks, but not in the direction of an everyday commuter. I can only image the amount of patting on the backs the Ive team gave each other. Good job guys, on to the next project.
The design says: "Look at this nice Ferrari-branded toy car! You should have one in your garage, it would look cute next to your real car (_Real_ Ferrari, gas engine, looks like a sleek lion about to eat its prey)". In that sense, it might be perfect - for a brand that's not yet certain that it can stay true to itself in a EV-only world?
As someone who is not in the market for a Ferrari, I feel like I am crazy for actually kinda liking the look of it? (The blue is bad, they should have used the red one for all of the marketing)
I mean, I feel like it should be a departure from the Ferrari look since it really isn't one that fits the expectation of what a Ferrari is. It feels like this is more an expansion of the Ferrari brand into a new segment while also borrowing from the rest of the brand?
They even said "entirely new Ferrari".
I feel like if it did try to look like a normal Ferrari but then it didn't feel, sound, etc like one due to being Electric people would also complain.
> if it did try to look like a normal Ferrari but then it didn't feel, sound, etc like one due to being Electric people would also complain
A "normal" Ferrari or any old sportscar looks cool on a race track but in real life it is literally midlife crisis on wheels, very awkward and out of place. I always feel pity/judgement when I see one. I heard it's also uncomfortable for passengers in the back and so on.
Form is function. Making this car look like something it isn't just for the sake of legacy appearance would be top engineering stupidity and waste. And trying to compete with your own ICE cars at what they are best also would not be so smart business-wise.
I'm not a car guy but this car seems to be doing something totally new for Ferrari. If there was no controversy THEN it would be worrying!
I am also not in the market for a Ferrari. The problem is that it looks so pedestrian. Personally, I think the Ioniq has more personality. For a 600k car, it should have some appeal. This just looks like every other EV; it’s generic and boring.
I think they might have had much more success with a strategy like the R32 EV. Take something classic (like the Testarossa) and electrify it. Remind people that EVs are an evolution rather than a capitulation to generic boringness.
Thanks for the link. Totally seeing the appeal of this car.
The UX seems actually very good (based on this short review so far). Good use of physical tactile controls + flexibility of a screen.
As to external looks. Whenever I see old ICE sports cars (all those lotuses, ferraris, lamborghinis) they seem so awkward and out of place on city streets. They just scream midlife crisis. I think this will be an upgrade in that sense.
Some people exist in another financial dimension :shrug: Bentleys and rolls royces for example don't scream midlife crisis and this is a bit closer to that by comfort apparently
Looks mostly like a bloated american car. The absolute worst design standards based around SUV and Truck styles. Probably the wrong time to align with anything USA.
It’s just not an attractive design at all, and stat-wise it’s laughable compared to a Tesla, especially at that price point. There’s no way this sees production. If anything, this just harms the Ferrari brand.
That is clearly not the mistake, there are images of it in blue, red, and yellow. I've also seen a couple of different styles of wheels. The design looks bad (for a Ferrari) in every iteration. The overwhelming feedback on public discussions is that it looks [cheap|terrible|boring|notFerrari].
I’m not really sure why someone would hire Ive to design a car. I don’t know much about him, but to me he’s mostly known for designing Apple products, not luxury vehicles.
Hiring someone because of their name recognition in a role they aren’t suited for would of course backfire.
(Again, maybe he does have some prior work that means he’s suited for the job and I’m just unaware)
Looking at the Ferrari and it's missing that certain look, styling, and tradition Ferrari's have. This design looks like a nice modern electric car, but doesn't have the wow of a Ferrari.
And a lot of people think he ruined at least some Apple products (too-thin laptops).
> he ruined at least some Apple products
In my small circle of car friends, the new Ferrari is being called the "Magic mouse" of ferraris and posting memes of the car upside down with the cable plugged in at the bottom.
I was hoping for an SF90 meets Nevera when they were talking about it originally :(
But that is entirely unoriginal and derivative, compared to a designer wanting to make a mark.
> the "Magic mouse" of ferraris
Could be worse. Could be the 1998 iMac mouse of cars. (No way to tell which way it's going.)
I posit that a mouse that needs to be on its back to be charged, thus rendering it completely useless during that time, to be much much much worse than a round mouse with no immediate indication which way is forward...
It takes a half hour to get months of charge back, so it’s not a functional problem. I think you wanted to have a wireless mouse with a port in the back so it feels like a wired mouse when you want it to. That would have been cool but I suspect a standard usb cable wouldn’t be rated for being continually contorted and wouldn’t be as pleasant as a wired mouse wire designed for that, so you’d need a special wire and it was just not going to work.
Jony Ive without a Steve Jobs to keep him grounded doesn't work.
From my work experience, you can't give a designer unlimited power because he/she will turn the product into an art project.
Not to mention iOS 7.
And the iPhone 5c which had toy-like colors and was reminiscent of Fisher-Price products. The 5c case with holes made it even worse.
The hiring brand is Ferrari. Its entire business is predicated on a Paris-Hilton-style effect, whereby it is famous for being famous. Tactics like hiring Jony Ive are a common way to keep this virtuous cycle afloat. It's not really about design, it's about PR/hype/reputation/branding.
imo the exterior looks like a cartoon BYD and should be killed with fire.
however while folks are negative on Ive for the car shape, he only designed the interiors not the car body, and the interiors are kinda lovely car interior design:
-no touchscreen (dangerous while driving) -clicky, intuitive tactile switches and buttons -thoughtful use of color (display base color changes based on driving mode)
I mean even just looking at those air conditioning vents (rotate vent to open/close) is classive Ive: intuitive but sophisticated.
I hope more manufacturers copy these new/old patterns on the interiors.
> he only designed the interiors not the car body
TopGear reports otherwise [0]:
> In a genius move, they hired design agency LoveFrom to handle the exterior and interior execution: that’s headed by former Apple chief design officer, Sir Jonathan Ive.
[0] https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/its-finally-here-m...
you are correct, I amend my claim.
the interiors are nice, but overall imo the car is a design failure.
Thanks for sharing this!
Is the giant rectangle in the middle of the dashboard not a touchscreen?
fair point, but it is not a tesla-style “giant iPad”
primary inputs while driving are buttons and knobs
I don't think this looks bad but I think this will look dated very fast. The exterior looks like a continuation of the last 20 years of car designs in general, not an update to Ferrari design. An exception is the rear-end which is a good take on the F40's rear end. A larger nod to older designs, like the modern Dodge Challenger or Ford Bronco would be nice to see. I'm sure if you talk to Jony Ive he will explain the Ferrari inspiration behind each subtle curve but it is not obviously a Ferrari at a glance.
On the other hand, it's a five-seater and an attempt to make it look more like Ferrari's iconic cars could also end badly.
The interior and interfaces look great. Even if the roundness of interior is not your cup of tea, figuring out the right balance between tactile buttons and touchscreen is really important and they might have nailed it.
What prevents car manufacturers from taking a normal-looking body style and electrifying it? Seems popular with the aftermarket mods. Every hybrid and EV I can think of looks like a suppository.
Edit: I asked AI the same question and it reminded me that BMW’s i4, Camry Hybrid, Porsche Taycan, Ferrari 296 GTB (hybrid), Corvette E-Ray, F150 Lightning, and Genesis Electrified G80 all look fairly similar to standard ICE vehicles.
> What prevents car manufacturers from taking a normal-looking body style and electrifying it? Seems popular with the aftermarket mods. Every hybrid and EV I can think of looks like a suppository.
The fact that even though an ICE engine is only 35% efficient, the energy density of fuel is still much higher than gas. Gasoline is 50x more energy-dense than an average EV lithium battery (taking a Tesla Model 3 as example). That's why you can fuel 9L of gasoline or charge and carry around ~500kg of batteries for the same range.
So in order to make the car efficient and travel 500km you have to bend the shape to be as aerodynamic as possible. That's where retractile/flush handles also come from, it wasn't just a gimmick or wow-factor on the Model S when it launched. It's still like that years later on all models because it still makes the car more efficient.
The research and push for higher densities is finally starting to pay off, so in time less efficient but more appealing/classic designs may start to emerge again, because you're less constrained by how much energy you can carry per same weight/volume.
> What prevents car manufacturers from taking a normal-looking body style and electrifying it?
Audi and BMW have been doing this for years at this point.
BMW i4 is a 4 series grand coupe (i.e., hatchback sedan in this case).
Audi ev suvs are super close to the gas versions. Both are shifting overlapped designs around though, perhaps specializing.
Also, it seems Mercedes will discontinue the EQS and EQE lines and replace them with electric S- and E-Class: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/electric-mercede...
yeah that's interesting though it seems unclear if that's a north american market thing.
https://www.mercedes-benz.de/passengercars/models/electric.h...
Ironically, I think your question is the reason it’s not done more often, or at least some brands make “very obvious” EV’s: because for some customers, they want people to know they’re different (and memorable) from the ICE vehicles.
This is clearly not the case.
For the longest time ICE car makers build cars that screamed "electric". They mostly where behind expectations. At that time the by far most successful EV brand was Tesla with the USP that their cars looked like cars, while at the time the electric BMW where the most ugly cars i have ever seen.
Now this has reversed. The current EVs from VW, Mercedes and BMW, Renault, Dacia, Fiat all look normal. The BMW iX3 has a long waiting list, VWs boring ID-cars are doing better than ever. Tesla has release the Cybertruck that screams "electric" and is a sales disaster.
"Custumers want EVs to look like EVs" was made up by the marketing departments, while the opposite seems to be correct.
My personal conspiracy theory is that the ICE divisions wanted to prevent EVs cannibalizing their market and they pushed for ugliness or "differentiation".
I wonder if that was mostly true of early adopters, and more mainstream consumers would prefer more conventional designs.
I used to want an electic aventador but now I'm just going for a lotus exige s 240 in chrome orange it's a sub $100K car attainable for me
> What prevents car manufacturers from taking a normal-looking body style and electrifying it?
Isn't that literally what the first Tesla was? An existing Lotus chassis with electric guts?
I do think it's kinda weird that Ferrari didn't do something similar, or at least closer to that, compared to... this thing.
And the original Model S proved that you can have a nice electric car that looks nice and "normal" as opposed to weird blobs of the time.
especially with older cars . would love to revive cars from 60s-80s
I love the look of old cars, but there's a lot of modern safety advances sacrificed with driving around in a classic. Obvious would be modern seat belts and air bags. Less obvious are crumple zones. There's plenty of other things I'm sure that have been added in modern cars. A modern EV with the body of a 1969 Corvette Stingray or 1969 Camaro would be amazing. I'm talking modern interior materials for sound dampening and comfort like updated ACs not modern touch screen nonsense.
I agree. Love older cars in the way they look, but I consider them only a little safer than a motorcycle.
And plenty of people drive motorcycles and old cars every day without incident. Just from a percentage basis it’s not as safe.
The safety features of modern cars are more like an insurance policy where you don't think about it until you actually need it. I replaced a 2007 Corolla with a 2015 one where after just a few months of owning the car I was in a t-bone accident on the driver side. The 2015 had side impact curtains that really saved me that I cannot imagine what would have happened in the 2007 model. I walked away from that with just a couple of scrapes.
The plenty of people comment also reminds me of the sayings about airliners. It's not that there's a lot of accidents, but when they do happen, there tends to be higher percentage of fatalities.
These guys do just that. used to live walking distance, awesome stuff.
https://evwest.com
While there are some interesting design choices for things like the lights and wheels (across all Hyundai models, IMHO) the Hyundai EV9 is a pretty normal looking SUV.
The stock fell down to the price it was a SIX days ago. It was even lower at 321$ 11 days ago. Guess the guardian forgot to mention that.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RACE/?guccounter=1
til ferrari's ticker is RACE !
Probably have to turn it upside down to charge it
Definitely some Toyota Prius vibes. They certainly should take some design risks, but not in the direction of an everyday commuter. I can only image the amount of patting on the backs the Ive team gave each other. Good job guys, on to the next project.
There is some chat as to why it looks like that shape below [0]. In short no engine space constraint & aiming for efficiency rather than downforce.
https://youtu.be/K-o0r2zSgCE?t=2162
Without the badging I wouldn't have guessed Ferrari.
Agreed. This looks more like a Mustang to me.
Fiat Multipla.
The design is reminiscent of a Honda e
Very ugly car indeed. Lightyears away from the Ferrari brand.
Also, 99% of cars are ugly these days. They all look like angry vacuum cleaners.
Divisive. there is someone who liked it?
Johnny Ive presumably likes it.
The design says: "Look at this nice Ferrari-branded toy car! You should have one in your garage, it would look cute next to your real car (_Real_ Ferrari, gas engine, looks like a sleek lion about to eat its prey)". In that sense, it might be perfect - for a brand that's not yet certain that it can stay true to itself in a EV-only world?
It’s fine looking car.
It isn’t a fine looking Ferrari or even close.
As someone who is not in the market for a Ferrari, I feel like I am crazy for actually kinda liking the look of it? (The blue is bad, they should have used the red one for all of the marketing)
I mean, I feel like it should be a departure from the Ferrari look since it really isn't one that fits the expectation of what a Ferrari is. It feels like this is more an expansion of the Ferrari brand into a new segment while also borrowing from the rest of the brand?
They even said "entirely new Ferrari".
I feel like if it did try to look like a normal Ferrari but then it didn't feel, sound, etc like one due to being Electric people would also complain.
> if it did try to look like a normal Ferrari but then it didn't feel, sound, etc like one due to being Electric people would also complain
A "normal" Ferrari or any old sportscar looks cool on a race track but in real life it is literally midlife crisis on wheels, very awkward and out of place. I always feel pity/judgement when I see one. I heard it's also uncomfortable for passengers in the back and so on.
Form is function. Making this car look like something it isn't just for the sake of legacy appearance would be top engineering stupidity and waste. And trying to compete with your own ICE cars at what they are best also would not be so smart business-wise.
I'm not a car guy but this car seems to be doing something totally new for Ferrari. If there was no controversy THEN it would be worrying!
I am also not in the market for a Ferrari. The problem is that it looks so pedestrian. Personally, I think the Ioniq has more personality. For a 600k car, it should have some appeal. This just looks like every other EV; it’s generic and boring.
I think they might have had much more success with a strategy like the R32 EV. Take something classic (like the Testarossa) and electrify it. Remind people that EVs are an evolution rather than a capitulation to generic boringness.
> As someone who is not in the market for a Ferrari, I feel like I am crazy for actually kinda liking the look of it?
s/Ferrari/Tesla and I think we have the sentiment of any cybertruck owners
Looks like a nice Kia or Hyundai.
the most biting comment I've seen yet
Marques Brownlee toured one recently - "Ferrari Luce is the Most Controversial Ferrari Ever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Reu1WS3BhM
Thanks for the link. Totally seeing the appeal of this car.
The UX seems actually very good (based on this short review so far). Good use of physical tactile controls + flexibility of a screen.
As to external looks. Whenever I see old ICE sports cars (all those lotuses, ferraris, lamborghinis) they seem so awkward and out of place on city streets. They just scream midlife crisis. I think this will be an upgrade in that sense.
Yeah but why would anyone pay $600k for a car just to not look like they are having a midlife crisis?
Some people exist in another financial dimension :shrug: Bentleys and rolls royces for example don't scream midlife crisis and this is a bit closer to that by comfort apparently
The Ferrari Testarossa (F110) is probably the most beautiful of their line IMHO, hair-rising roar it has too.
Before I saw the car, I figured the response would be overblown like many are these days, but yikes that is really an uninspiring silhouette.
Reminds me of Homer Simpson designing a car for his half brother and making him bankrupt.
The front looks very not Ferrari.
Looks mostly like a bloated american car. The absolute worst design standards based around SUV and Truck styles. Probably the wrong time to align with anything USA.
Holy shit is that thing ugly, both inside and outside. Hiring Jony Ive was a huge mistake.
Thank God only a few will be produced and those will be squirreled away by a handful of oligarchs and will never see the light of day.
It’s just not an attractive design at all, and stat-wise it’s laughable compared to a Tesla, especially at that price point. There’s no way this sees production. If anything, this just harms the Ferrari brand.
Am I the only one who was impressed by the interior design? But yeah, the body is ugly as hell, I think it lacks aggression in the design.
Related:
Ferrari Luce
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48271629
The main mistake made here is that the color is a weird sky blue. The actual shape looks great - just needs to be red.
That is clearly not the mistake, there are images of it in blue, red, and yellow. I've also seen a couple of different styles of wheels. The design looks bad (for a Ferrari) in every iteration. The overwhelming feedback on public discussions is that it looks [cheap|terrible|boring|notFerrari].
It looks like Hundai's homage to Ferrari.
It looks like something you put VHS tapes in to rewind them.
It looks like a Lotus Elise.
To me, it kind of reminds me of a Lucid Motors car.
It looks like Nissan Leaf
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48275386
Nah, the main mistake is Jony Ive. one hit wonder.
To me, it looks a bit like a kit car (especially from the back)
https://www.reddit.com/r/itsalwaysafiero/
There's red one as well.