Never underestimate the power of a zero-network-hop abstraction over f(feature_name, context).
And context can be extremely tailored to your niche: specific inventory, from a specific supplier, for a specific user of a specific B2B client of a specific business model subtype, who should or shouldn’t see certain features on that specific inventory at certain times.
When you can write your own logic, and just run this in a tight loop as easily and performantly as you can use a constant, it makes your business incredibly agile. Think some text might change for some customers? Just write the code to make it configurable, and you get tests and flags for free.
Sadly, that zero-hop setup requires a sophisticated client execution engine, which it doesn’t appear Cloudflare has implemented here. Makes sense for their memory constrained workers, less sense for traditional infrastructure.
Statsig has an approach here that I quite like:
> To be able to do this, Server SDKs hold the entire ruleset of your project in memory - a representation of each gate or experiment in JSON. On client SDKs, we evaluate all of the gates/experiments when you call initialize - on our servers.
You can also roll your own - just sync your rulesets to a few data structures every few seconds in a background thread and atomically swap the reference to them. Then you just need a CRUD interface over the applicability ruleset dimensions.
Just be careful to have governance on who can play with which would-be constants. Great power and great responsibility and all that!
When reading your comment, it just reminds me on how feature flags can be misused as application configuration/customization. An antipattern i could observe at various organzations already.
For me feature flags go along with trunk based development to enable features in QA settings, but not on PROD yet, for PO/PM testing. Trunk based development allows for fast/easy devops, without complicated branching strategies.
Application configuration is, for me, part of the application and has the business context for customizing the application accordingly. Not sure if there are specific frameworks/tools out there. But one should clearly distinguish these two.
> it just reminds me on how feature flags can be misused as application configuration/customization. An antipattern i could observe at various organzations already.
feature flags are perfect for configuration and customization, why using them for this purpose is 'misuse' is beyond me and I've heard this claim from multiple people. they're literally configuration. feature with a flag to turn it on, off or give the flag a value. where's the misuse? is it a problem I'm not running experiments when switching over redis to valkey or whatever?
> Sadly, that zero-hop setup requires a sophisticated client execution engine, which it doesn’t appear Cloudflare has implemented here.
It doesn't have to be sophisticated and they don't need to implement it themselves. They piggy-back on OpenFeature where the client libraries have a simple targeting rule evaluation engine integrated.
Statsig is a half-baked product bought out by OpenAI for data harvesting. We already reported 2 documentation issues and 1 critical technical issue, and we're barely using it.
Good advice. I'll add a protip / reminder that feature flags, AB tests, and entitlements are three distinct concepts. This blog post (no affiliation) has framing I found helpful:
> Sadly, that zero-hop setup requires a sophisticated client execution engine, which it doesn’t appear Cloudflare has implemented here. Makes sense for their memory constrained workers, less sense for traditional infrastructure.
wait what? what kind of logic do you need to do that CF Workers can't do?
Looking at the docs for their JS SDK, they have this warning:
> The client provider requires an API token to fetch flag values. This token is not scoped to a single app, so anyone with the token can evaluate flags across all apps in your account. Use the client provider with caution in public-facing applications.
Can anyone clarify... why the client SDK, designed to be deployed to browsers, requires caution? Does this mean that any client could send requests with a new targetingKey and observe other users' flags?
While flags probably shouldn't be critical information, this seems like an interesting design choice.
instead of polishing their existing products (and most of them do require a lot of work) they jump into any other niche someone thought was a good idea. My guess is that with ai being able to prototype things quickly they just started doing everything that is even a bit relevant.
Both Cloudflare and Vercel have feature parity. Flags is a feature already in Vercel. While customer-first is a thing, it is also a no-brainer to start with: we use it, Vercel has it, let us build it.
If you’re specifically thinking of native ephemeral workers with very fast startup, it seems like those would have to be sandboxed somehow, and WebAssembly seems like a decent solution. Is there really a significant native code gap between WebAssembly workers and native containers?
Containers seem to only be "Available on Workers Paid plan", whereas Vercel supports it on the hobby account as well.
Kind of relevant on those cheapskate projects that only start paying licenses after the SOW is signed, but already expect some kind of prototyping in place.
WebAssembly is a solution looking for a problem outside the browser, with worse development experience.
If I want bytecode based runtimes, I already have them with first class development experience, and decades of deployment experience, between Erlang, JVM and CLR.
Yes, this! I am dying for need of zerotrust enterprise features and am about to have to actually talk to one of the enterprise sales folks, which will chew up a bunch of time and add stress I’d rather avoid.
The flags (whether they be booleans, strings, numbers, or anything else) are the trivial part. It's the targeting and rollout rules (i.e. who gets to see which flags), and the requirements for extremely fast and consistent evaluation of these rules, that can get surprisingly complicated fast, and folks who have rolled their own usually find that product management or marketing or sales wants to target using more complex rules, and the problem balloons.
I agree that problem is not particularly hard in the grand scheme of things, but it is actually quite big, meaning it requires a lot of features that aren't obvious at first glance.
Edit: Thought of another analogy that may help explain the complexity. At their heart, feature flags are really a permissioning system: only certain users get access to certain pieces of functionality. Anyone who has ever dealt with permission systems know how complex they can be: group membership, including hierarchical groups, roles, ACLs, etc. All of those things are really analogous (actually, a subset really) to the various types of targeting rules that can be used in a feature flags system.
Percentage rollouts, RBAC, audit history, A/B testing, multivariate - it gets complex quick. That boolean turns into a whole system you have to maintain and operate.
They're not always booleans - for example, we often see feature flags being used for A/B rollouts.
Cloudflare themselves even uses them internally as such, by shipping new features/builds to their free customers first, and then progressively larger customers after a settling period.
Feature flags can also be randomly turned on, for a sort of fuzz testing. Don't think of them just as 'new things' - it could be 'changed behavior'.
I guess you could think of them as a boolean on every client but they're generally not implemented that way.
This is just an implementation detail, a feature flag can very well be implemented with a Boolean in a database.
To me the main appeal of feature flags is that they allow to work on large features that often require months and many commits to finish in a main branch. This, at least to me, results in a more lightweight and more iterative development process. This contrasts with maintaining a separate branch, with perhaps separate deployment target for a large in-development features.
These are booleans with a bit more context. They may only apply to a particular geographic area, and may have dependencies: if we turn off flag X, we automatically turn off flag Y.
How do you set a boolean to only return true for queries to 5% of the fleet? And which 5% of the fleet? And then ramp up on a predefined cadence? Or how about returning true only for customers in the preview group for the feature? Does the database return false automatically if the 5% of the fleet where it's true start crashing or throwing exceptions? Does it hook into your observability stack?
Fundamentally, sure, you could just implement it as a boolean in the database. It's the integration and tooling that works with the rest of your stack that makes it worthy of the name "feature flag".
Then why did they deliberately make it compatible with Open Feature, explicitly making it easy to swap out a different Open Feature provider?
Oh, that's right, you just spouted a "big company bad" mantra without bothering to read the article. Look, I know saying RTFA goes against the HN guidelines, but the amount of increasingly lazy spew i see from folks (or bots) who haven't bothered to read the article is so tiresome and annoying.
Cloudflare are winning these days, they’re just lacking good fine grained permissions. You still have to make an entirely separate account for prod, which messes up SSO since one domain can only be bound to one account.
Their products are cool and I've been happy with them over the years, but their blog right now has had some blunders recently. Also their reliability seems to have been having trouble but does seem better recently.
Their pricing is not ridiculous like some providers. It would be very hard to rack up that kind of bill, especially considering their rate limiting rules are now free to use.
One account gets compromised and your doomed. A lot of companies even have prod access be a request based system. Most modern security models with zero trust don't let everyone have access to everything, quite the opposite.
Feature flags are often ridiculously over engineered.
Check a config, bdd value, env var to dynamically go one path or the other.
That’s all, you must either have a small feature or refactor the code to easily switch at a high level.
If you are not able to do so easily, then yes, complex feature flags implementations might help you, to coordinate feature activation between micro services.
Or if you have many features then a dashboard might be useful.
But I would argue that both are serious indicators that you should avoid feature flags, they are better for local and temporary changes, otherwise the complexity compounds and it become hard to manage and maintain.
There's an argument to be made for being able to turn on a feature for a certain segment (e.g low revenue users in Italy) so you can see what the business/performance impact is.
Ofcourse you don't want users to lose the feature once they exceeded your revenue threshold or cross the border so you'll need to implement some kind of tracking. Your analytics and error tracking also needs to communicate with the feature flag service.
Definitely not rocket science but more complex than a environment variable.
Enterprise software is full of this kind of stuff. Half our customers are on year old UI's because they don't want to re-up contracts yet.
That is, features are contractual and when you've only got 50 customers but they're all paying high 6 figures does anyone really care about feature flag complexity?
There's an argument to be made for being able to turn on a feature for a certain segment
Not just an argument, it's the entire point of feature flags for ui experiments which is an essential practice. Dynamic adjustment of the cohorts (or even just an immediate kill switch if it's a disaster) is required.
I have had a lot of experience with OpenFeature, and have early commits in a few of the client libraries. It's definitely the future of feature flagging, and the ecosystem is really growing.
Full disclosure, I am the CTO of Flagsmith, and we have seen a clear curve in adoption of OpenFeature over the last few years. It used to be that we were pushing customers to try it out, now they come to us with OpenFeature as a requirement.
The vendor support is pretty mature now and there is coverage across almost all languages. If you're integrating feature flags into a new service, or looking to migrate from e.g. home-grown to a third party solution, OpenFeature is definitely the way I would recommend going.
It’s pretty useful. We used it at a previous company. We built a custom backend, but used the spec and SDKs.
It took like 2 weeks to build a full custom backend. SDKs across languages worked flawlessly (okay, we did find one bug, reported it, and it was fixed within the day)
I’m always excited when Cloudflare starts offering things that I had to use other providers for because I know it will be solid.
We used Statsig at Function. It started out as 2 of us using it on one product and within 12 months, large amounts of our product copy and rollouts were driven off of it.
Statsig has client side evals so you can write rules and rollouts based on internal concepts without Statsig’s servers processing a piece of user data. Hoping Cloudflare can build a sophisticated product here so I don’t have use another product in the future!
i see @btown's comment below but also just for education about this space:
- anyone have comments/comparisons about launchdarkly vs posthog vs statsig (is it still alive after openai?) vs _____ vs cloudflare flagship?
like a "beginner/intermediate/advanced" progression of what to look out for/what you will want when it comes to feature flags would be highly helpful for me and many others here
never understood this. why follow over-engineered standard and depend on 3rd party API spec, and 3rd party vendor. if you cannot call home from your service, you having bigger problems. and once you can call home, it is just.. single json file.
More of this please: essential tools for building modern software must be oss; Im fine with paying for a hosted version but just the benefit of learning one tool and being able to use it everywhere (linux, k8s, python etc) is amazing.
Has anyone struggled to run their own feature flagging service? After root causing slow app starts to be caused by the equivalent offering from Firebase, I've been cautious to use any off the shelf solutions
It can get complicated quickly if you're actually using it in a production system. At my prev enterprise saas company we had feature flags that could be turned on per customer / per environment (dev, staging, prod) with permission + logging model such that our support team could also toggle flags with history of who turned on what. We also had "per user" feature flags for certain test users at companies and had DSL rules to evaluate the features
A bit tangent but related: These things I'm never sure if I should be shipping on day one with mobile apps (Flutter in particular): Flagships, bug gathering, A/B testing ?
I feel strong inclination too but its also way too early before any real users can prove PMF. I've been using Google stuff but wonder if Flagship and perhaps other Cloudflare offerings can help.
The other side is that again it feels too early for this stuff and I just want to ship something quickly.
Am I the only one worried about Cloudflare becoming too powerful?
We went through this with E-mail: we slept through the period when Google, Microsoft and AWS were growing, and we ended up with them dictating the terms. Today I get 90% of my spam from Google, Microsoft and AWS and they don't care: they can safely ignore spam reports, because at this point they are Too Big to Block.
I have a feeling we are moving towards the same problem with Cloudflare and the web. Tomorrow Cloudflare will start dictating what we can or cannot do and we will not be able to do anything about it. This has already begun: their arbitrary "bot-filtering" for example.
Cloudflare is already too powerful, their anti DDOS solution is just too good. But their serverless products/features don't really build on that, they are just another hosting company.
> Am I the only one worried about Cloudflare becoming too powerful?
No, it gets brought up in every single thread about cloud flare. And if this wasnt a feature release that people seem to like, the top comment would probably be talking about how cloudflare is terrible for the internet.
Missing gradual rollout of feature flag changes themselves. Yes, you can do percentage based rollouts for individual features but still should have ability to canary all changes before they cause an insta-sev.
I don’t have experience with the tools Cloudflare has been shipping this year so I can’t speak about the quality, but they have really been pushing out a lot new products and services, no doubt due to agentic coding.
If anyone is interested, you can implement something like that with a few lines of code on the front end. We expose a function that generates a uniformly-distributed hash that you can use for A/B testing and other uses:
Essentially, this can support a huge number of "variants" and within each variant you can have N equal segments. That will help you do A/B testing and flipping features on or off.
Never underestimate the power of a zero-network-hop abstraction over f(feature_name, context).
And context can be extremely tailored to your niche: specific inventory, from a specific supplier, for a specific user of a specific B2B client of a specific business model subtype, who should or shouldn’t see certain features on that specific inventory at certain times.
When you can write your own logic, and just run this in a tight loop as easily and performantly as you can use a constant, it makes your business incredibly agile. Think some text might change for some customers? Just write the code to make it configurable, and you get tests and flags for free.
Sadly, that zero-hop setup requires a sophisticated client execution engine, which it doesn’t appear Cloudflare has implemented here. Makes sense for their memory constrained workers, less sense for traditional infrastructure.
Statsig has an approach here that I quite like:
> To be able to do this, Server SDKs hold the entire ruleset of your project in memory - a representation of each gate or experiment in JSON. On client SDKs, we evaluate all of the gates/experiments when you call initialize - on our servers.
https://docs.statsig.com/sdks/how-evaluation-works
You can also roll your own - just sync your rulesets to a few data structures every few seconds in a background thread and atomically swap the reference to them. Then you just need a CRUD interface over the applicability ruleset dimensions.
Just be careful to have governance on who can play with which would-be constants. Great power and great responsibility and all that!
When reading your comment, it just reminds me on how feature flags can be misused as application configuration/customization. An antipattern i could observe at various organzations already.
For me feature flags go along with trunk based development to enable features in QA settings, but not on PROD yet, for PO/PM testing. Trunk based development allows for fast/easy devops, without complicated branching strategies.
Application configuration is, for me, part of the application and has the business context for customizing the application accordingly. Not sure if there are specific frameworks/tools out there. But one should clearly distinguish these two.
> it just reminds me on how feature flags can be misused as application configuration/customization. An antipattern i could observe at various organzations already.
feature flags are perfect for configuration and customization, why using them for this purpose is 'misuse' is beyond me and I've heard this claim from multiple people. they're literally configuration. feature with a flag to turn it on, off or give the flag a value. where's the misuse? is it a problem I'm not running experiments when switching over redis to valkey or whatever?
> it just reminds me on how feature flags can be misused as application configuration/customization
They literally are configuration.
> Sadly, that zero-hop setup requires a sophisticated client execution engine, which it doesn’t appear Cloudflare has implemented here.
It doesn't have to be sophisticated and they don't need to implement it themselves. They piggy-back on OpenFeature where the client libraries have a simple targeting rule evaluation engine integrated.
Statsig has worked great at my work, really polished and rich feature set. Their tooling to identify unused flags as candidates for removal is neat.
The per-seat billing we have in our agreement is a bit rough but it's workable.
Statsig is a half-baked product bought out by OpenAI for data harvesting. We already reported 2 documentation issues and 1 critical technical issue, and we're barely using it.
Good advice. I'll add a protip / reminder that feature flags, AB tests, and entitlements are three distinct concepts. This blog post (no affiliation) has framing I found helpful:
https://www.stigg.io/blog-posts/entitlements-untangled-the-m...
Amazing resource, thanks!
> Sadly, that zero-hop setup requires a sophisticated client execution engine, which it doesn’t appear Cloudflare has implemented here. Makes sense for their memory constrained workers, less sense for traditional infrastructure.
wait what? what kind of logic do you need to do that CF Workers can't do?
Could you be more specific?
Gold-plated booleans-as-a-service
yes, worth every penny
I’ve seen whole teams at companies set up fail to provide these booleans-as-a-service well. There are whole companies like LaunchDarkly for them.
If you boil it down to this, you may as well boil down every service that exists to bits-as-a-service.
Turns out theres legitimate business value in these things, and complexity in delivering them.
I don't mind it. I don't want to keep track of thousands of feature flags in my DB, have to create an admin dash, etc.
You could call any SaaS tool "excel-as-a-service" and it would hold the same power as your comment.
or maybe just make single JSON and commit it to git? your http server + GitHub + JSON and text editor is your admin ui, audit, etc.
how would a single JSON allow staged rollouts with sticky sessions?
you pick a frequency you want, represent that as a fraction, and modulo on user id, and your 80% of the way there
MVP
Looking at the docs for their JS SDK, they have this warning:
> The client provider requires an API token to fetch flag values. This token is not scoped to a single app, so anyone with the token can evaluate flags across all apps in your account. Use the client provider with caution in public-facing applications.
https://developers.cloudflare.com/flagship/sdk/client-provid...
Can anyone clarify... why the client SDK, designed to be deployed to browsers, requires caution? Does this mean that any client could send requests with a new targetingKey and observe other users' flags?
While flags probably shouldn't be critical information, this seems like an interesting design choice.
Let's think about it. This is probably something used internally at CloudFlare and someone thought I'd be interesting to make it public.
There is no way 6 months ago someone at CloudFlare thought it was a good idea to build a competitor to say LaunchDarkly.
Hmm not sure I necessarily agree. Cloudflare's strategy has been looking like "the only platform you need" for a while now.
Their recent features / announcements have been equivalent to:
(LaunchDarkly)
Resend, Firecrawl, CrewAI, Helicone, Replicate, Pinecone
-
Which like… many companies have a painful procurement process. If all you need is Cloudflare, and prices are within reason- why not use them
Their quality of the products they ship have already became shitty for quite a while now.
they are quickly turning into a slop shop
instead of polishing their existing products (and most of them do require a lot of work) they jump into any other niche someone thought was a good idea. My guess is that with ai being able to prototype things quickly they just started doing everything that is even a bit relevant.
which won't end well
Don’t forget they now also have an OpenRouter alternative.
Both Cloudflare and Vercel have feature parity. Flags is a feature already in Vercel. While customer-first is a thing, it is also a no-brainer to start with: we use it, Vercel has it, let us build it.
Now waiting for Cloudflare to allow me to use Rust for serverless, real native code, not WebAssembly.
https://vercel.com/docs/functions/runtimes/rust
They have containers, does that count?
If you’re specifically thinking of native ephemeral workers with very fast startup, it seems like those would have to be sandboxed somehow, and WebAssembly seems like a decent solution. Is there really a significant native code gap between WebAssembly workers and native containers?
Containers seem to only be "Available on Workers Paid plan", whereas Vercel supports it on the hobby account as well.
Kind of relevant on those cheapskate projects that only start paying licenses after the SOW is signed, but already expect some kind of prototyping in place.
WebAssembly is a solution looking for a problem outside the browser, with worse development experience.
If I want bytecode based runtimes, I already have them with first class development experience, and decades of deployment experience, between Erlang, JVM and CLR.
https://blog.cloudflare.com/flagship
Here's why we built it!
>Agentic coding tools like OpenCode and Claude Code are shipping entire features in minutes.
How many minutes do I need to wait until app-scoped tokens are live?
Sorry, just reached the weekly token limit.
Care to share why
Jane Wong salivating reading this
Hi! One of the engineers from the Flagship team here, app-scoped tokens are WIP.
That sounds like the product is not finished and should not be released?
"If you are not ashamed by what you are shipping, you are not shipping early enough" (Quoting from memory)
That's a terrible attitude for an infrastructure company. This is what private betas / close iteration with customers is for.
This has been the Cloudflare standard operating procedure for the last year or so. Non stop shipping alpha/beta products.
Otherwise known as vibe code snacking. Vibe out the easy 80% and say the hard 20% is “coming soon tm”
Is it perhaps available behind a flag somewhere?
Then it's not finished?
This is nice, but I’m still waiting for this to be delivered (which ironically is probably using Flagship):
https://blog.cloudflare.com/enterprise-grade-features-for-al...
—-
I don’t believe a single enterprise only feature has made its way to lower tier (paid) account yet.
I’m most interested in:
https://developers.cloudflare.com/speed/optimization/content...
Yes, this! I am dying for need of zerotrust enterprise features and am about to have to actually talk to one of the enterprise sales folks, which will chew up a bunch of time and add stress I’d rather avoid.
I don’t think zero trust will be anytime soon, based on this post:
https://community.cloudflare.com/t/making-enterprise-product...
I've never understood feature flags. How are they fundamentally different to a Boolean in a database?
The flags (whether they be booleans, strings, numbers, or anything else) are the trivial part. It's the targeting and rollout rules (i.e. who gets to see which flags), and the requirements for extremely fast and consistent evaluation of these rules, that can get surprisingly complicated fast, and folks who have rolled their own usually find that product management or marketing or sales wants to target using more complex rules, and the problem balloons.
I agree that problem is not particularly hard in the grand scheme of things, but it is actually quite big, meaning it requires a lot of features that aren't obvious at first glance.
Edit: Thought of another analogy that may help explain the complexity. At their heart, feature flags are really a permissioning system: only certain users get access to certain pieces of functionality. Anyone who has ever dealt with permission systems know how complex they can be: group membership, including hierarchical groups, roles, ACLs, etc. All of those things are really analogous (actually, a subset really) to the various types of targeting rules that can be used in a feature flags system.
Percentage rollouts, RBAC, audit history, A/B testing, multivariate - it gets complex quick. That boolean turns into a whole system you have to maintain and operate.
They're not always booleans - for example, we often see feature flags being used for A/B rollouts.
Cloudflare themselves even uses them internally as such, by shipping new features/builds to their free customers first, and then progressively larger customers after a settling period.
Feature flags can also be randomly turned on, for a sort of fuzz testing. Don't think of them just as 'new things' - it could be 'changed behavior'.
I guess you could think of them as a boolean on every client but they're generally not implemented that way.
This is just an implementation detail, a feature flag can very well be implemented with a Boolean in a database.
To me the main appeal of feature flags is that they allow to work on large features that often require months and many commits to finish in a main branch. This, at least to me, results in a more lightweight and more iterative development process. This contrasts with maintaining a separate branch, with perhaps separate deployment target for a large in-development features.
These are booleans with a bit more context. They may only apply to a particular geographic area, and may have dependencies: if we turn off flag X, we automatically turn off flag Y.
It's the tooling around them.
How do you set a boolean to only return true for queries to 5% of the fleet? And which 5% of the fleet? And then ramp up on a predefined cadence? Or how about returning true only for customers in the preview group for the feature? Does the database return false automatically if the 5% of the fleet where it's true start crashing or throwing exceptions? Does it hook into your observability stack?
Fundamentally, sure, you could just implement it as a boolean in the database. It's the integration and tooling that works with the rest of your stack that makes it worthy of the name "feature flag".
That’s all it is. This only exists to lock you into cloudflare even more.
Then why did they deliberately make it compatible with Open Feature, explicitly making it easy to swap out a different Open Feature provider?
Oh, that's right, you just spouted a "big company bad" mantra without bothering to read the article. Look, I know saying RTFA goes against the HN guidelines, but the amount of increasingly lazy spew i see from folks (or bots) who haven't bothered to read the article is so tiresome and annoying.
Oh look. Found the guy who’s taken it hook line and sinker.
Cloudflare are winning these days, they’re just lacking good fine grained permissions. You still have to make an entirely separate account for prod, which messes up SSO since one domain can only be bound to one account.
Their products are cool and I've been happy with them over the years, but their blog right now has had some blunders recently. Also their reliability seems to have been having trouble but does seem better recently.
Yes! I just opened a support case today asking for more fine grained permissions.
After years of AWS I gave Cloudflare a whirl and loved the UX but ultimately retreated back due to the same concern. They are so close though..
This is exactly what stops me from using them for real work. I love their free tier for my hobby stuff.
Yep I made the switch a couple of years ago for all of my projects and never looked back. Workers, D1, R2, queues, containers, KV
Still using AWS for email sending so that will be great when it comes
It already came if you use workers I believe, still in beta though. I would love to switch to it but I still need the SMTP interface though. https://developers.cloudflare.com/email-service/
wow thanks. I saw the initial announcement when it was still in private beta, but have been less online lately and missed the public launch. Awesome!!
E-mail sending is in beta afaik, you need the Workers paid plan to use it.
thank you!! missed the public launch
Will never use them without prepayment or spending limit options. Insane to be a bug, attack, or misclick away from 6-7 digit invoice
the CTO of Cloudflare (hn: dknecht) said:
> It is in the works. The billing team has been sprinting to fix a lot of debt in this area. I don’t have a date.
https://x.com/dok2001/status/2051220429973389622
Their pricing is not ridiculous like some providers. It would be very hard to rack up that kind of bill, especially considering their rate limiting rules are now free to use.
Just let everyone have access to prod?
One account gets compromised and your doomed. A lot of companies even have prod access be a request based system. Most modern security models with zero trust don't let everyone have access to everything, quite the opposite.
Poor access and change management governance.
hooboy that was a good one!
Anybody and everybody could use a mature LaunchDarkly alternative.
According to their page, they are an AI company, so I don’t see why would anyone choose them for feature flags.
Feature flags are often ridiculously over engineered.
Check a config, bdd value, env var to dynamically go one path or the other.
That’s all, you must either have a small feature or refactor the code to easily switch at a high level.
If you are not able to do so easily, then yes, complex feature flags implementations might help you, to coordinate feature activation between micro services.
Or if you have many features then a dashboard might be useful.
But I would argue that both are serious indicators that you should avoid feature flags, they are better for local and temporary changes, otherwise the complexity compounds and it become hard to manage and maintain.
There's an argument to be made for being able to turn on a feature for a certain segment (e.g low revenue users in Italy) so you can see what the business/performance impact is.
Ofcourse you don't want users to lose the feature once they exceeded your revenue threshold or cross the border so you'll need to implement some kind of tracking. Your analytics and error tracking also needs to communicate with the feature flag service.
Definitely not rocket science but more complex than a environment variable.
Enterprise software is full of this kind of stuff. Half our customers are on year old UI's because they don't want to re-up contracts yet.
That is, features are contractual and when you've only got 50 customers but they're all paying high 6 figures does anyone really care about feature flag complexity?
It is like over-engineered if you have that as feature flag instead of just in the customer configuration...
"The customer would like the main page blue and another one the red". Would it be feature flag for you?
There's an argument to be made for being able to turn on a feature for a certain segment
Not just an argument, it's the entire point of feature flags for ui experiments which is an essential practice. Dynamic adjustment of the cohorts (or even just an immediate kill switch if it's a disaster) is required.
The main thing about feature flags is discipline: create them purposefully, remove them as soon as they don't add value any more. KISS applies.
OpenFeature was new to me, neat! Anyone have experience integrating this? https://openfeature.dev
I have had a lot of experience with OpenFeature, and have early commits in a few of the client libraries. It's definitely the future of feature flagging, and the ecosystem is really growing.
Full disclosure, I am the CTO of Flagsmith, and we have seen a clear curve in adoption of OpenFeature over the last few years. It used to be that we were pushing customers to try it out, now they come to us with OpenFeature as a requirement.
The vendor support is pretty mature now and there is coverage across almost all languages. If you're integrating feature flags into a new service, or looking to migrate from e.g. home-grown to a third party solution, OpenFeature is definitely the way I would recommend going.
It’s pretty useful. We used it at a previous company. We built a custom backend, but used the spec and SDKs.
It took like 2 weeks to build a full custom backend. SDKs across languages worked flawlessly (okay, we did find one bug, reported it, and it was fixed within the day)
I’m always excited when Cloudflare starts offering things that I had to use other providers for because I know it will be solid.
We used Statsig at Function. It started out as 2 of us using it on one product and within 12 months, large amounts of our product copy and rollouts were driven off of it.
Statsig has client side evals so you can write rules and rollouts based on internal concepts without Statsig’s servers processing a piece of user data. Hoping Cloudflare can build a sophisticated product here so I don’t have use another product in the future!
you use a 3rd party for feature flags? im not "roll my own" for everything but feature flags have not been an issue to roll
There's feature flags then there's staged rollouts gated by multiple variables with statistical analysis
i see @btown's comment below but also just for education about this space:
- anyone have comments/comparisons about launchdarkly vs posthog vs statsig (is it still alive after openai?) vs _____ vs cloudflare flagship?
like a "beginner/intermediate/advanced" progression of what to look out for/what you will want when it comes to feature flags would be highly helpful for me and many others here
Worth noticing a Vercel equivalent: https://github.com/vercel/flags
That is actually their SDK / provider agnostic library. The better parallel to this new Cloudflare offering is Vercel Flags[1] (confusing I know)
[1] https://vercel.com/docs/flags/vercel-flags
only 2 hard problems in computer science...
never understood this. why follow over-engineered standard and depend on 3rd party API spec, and 3rd party vendor. if you cannot call home from your service, you having bigger problems. and once you can call home, it is just.. single json file.
More of this please: essential tools for building modern software must be oss; Im fine with paying for a hosted version but just the benefit of learning one tool and being able to use it everywhere (linux, k8s, python etc) is amazing.
Cloudflare oss?
Has anyone struggled to run their own feature flagging service? After root causing slow app starts to be caused by the equivalent offering from Firebase, I've been cautious to use any off the shelf solutions
It's literally a field in your database. I could never fathom why this needs to be an outsourced service never mind an entire company.
It can get complicated quickly if you're actually using it in a production system. At my prev enterprise saas company we had feature flags that could be turned on per customer / per environment (dev, staging, prod) with permission + logging model such that our support team could also toggle flags with history of who turned on what. We also had "per user" feature flags for certain test users at companies and had DSL rules to evaluate the features
Booleans as a Service
when started, yes. but then you want segment (how you segment your user), rollout strategy, etc.. it will get complicated fast
Thank you! I've never understood why this needs to be an external dependency with network requests.
Deploy to master ( microservices)
A bit tangent but related: These things I'm never sure if I should be shipping on day one with mobile apps (Flutter in particular): Flagships, bug gathering, A/B testing ?
I feel strong inclination too but its also way too early before any real users can prove PMF. I've been using Google stuff but wonder if Flagship and perhaps other Cloudflare offerings can help.
The other side is that again it feels too early for this stuff and I just want to ship something quickly.
The work ivnvolved
I would happily pay for safely-remove-old-feature-flags-from-the-code-as-a-service.
Am I the only one worried about Cloudflare becoming too powerful?
We went through this with E-mail: we slept through the period when Google, Microsoft and AWS were growing, and we ended up with them dictating the terms. Today I get 90% of my spam from Google, Microsoft and AWS and they don't care: they can safely ignore spam reports, because at this point they are Too Big to Block.
I have a feeling we are moving towards the same problem with Cloudflare and the web. Tomorrow Cloudflare will start dictating what we can or cannot do and we will not be able to do anything about it. This has already begun: their arbitrary "bot-filtering" for example.
Cloudflare is already too powerful, their anti DDOS solution is just too good. But their serverless products/features don't really build on that, they are just another hosting company.
> Am I the only one worried about Cloudflare becoming too powerful?
No, it gets brought up in every single thread about cloud flare. And if this wasnt a feature release that people seem to like, the top comment would probably be talking about how cloudflare is terrible for the internet.
Missing gradual rollout of feature flag changes themselves. Yes, you can do percentage based rollouts for individual features but still should have ability to canary all changes before they cause an insta-sev.
this make perfect sense for cloudflare.
and im sure they can drive down the cost , compared to say launchdarkly
I don’t have experience with the tools Cloudflare has been shipping this year so I can’t speak about the quality, but they have really been pushing out a lot new products and services, no doubt due to agentic coding.
I love their free tier but for playful stuff
a flagship with no pirates, all fired due to ai.
I like the name
This is what "Building for the future" looks like post-layoffs, huh?
Can't even ship with app-scoped tokens...
If anyone is interested, you can implement something like that with a few lines of code on the front end. We expose a function that generates a uniformly-distributed hash that you can use for A/B testing and other uses:
https://github.com/Qbix/Q.js/blob/main/src/js/Q.minimal.js#L...And on the back end, you'd use it like this:
https://github.com/Qbix/Platform/blob/main/platform/classes/...
Essentially, this can support a huge number of "variants" and within each variant you can have N equal segments. That will help you do A/B testing and flipping features on or off.
Feature flags are so ridiculously simple I have never needed to outsource this to someone else.
Do your running services receive streaming updates when Flags are toggled? Is your rule-engine evaluated locally?